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04 23, 24, 10:36:45:AM

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Biden Does NOT need a BILL to close the border
He only needs a PEN. Thats all he needed to open it.
Thats all he needed to close it. Thats all Trump needed.
Maybe this is just Proof Trump is better than Biden.

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 |  All Boards  |  Current Events  |  Topic: Sensible gun control is about on the same level of stupidity as paying 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Sensible gun control is about on the same level of stupidity as paying  (Read 1128 times)
D2D
Republicans believe every day is the fourth of July! Democrats believe every day is April 15!
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Posts: I am a geek!!

#SayHisName Cannon Hinnant


« Reply #36 on: 10 20, 16, 11:31:18:PM » Reply

jst-the-fax
Evil does not exist within a gun. It exists in the minds and hearts of those who pull the trigger for evil purposes.---Laus Deo
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http://purebredcatrescue.org/


« Reply #37 on: 10 21, 16, 12:04:30:AM » Reply

hawkie,

Were you beaten in jail?
1965hawks
Sr. Member

Posts: 26544


« Reply #38 on: 10 21, 16, 12:15:19:AM » Reply

D2D, instead of posting irrelevant graphs, why don't you do what I asked chuck_curtis to do? Read the articles I provided as examples of gun-control  laws enacted by governments in  the world's other advanced countries and then explain why you believe they aren't sensible gun laws.
D2D
Republicans believe every day is the fourth of July! Democrats believe every day is April 15!
Sr. Member

Posts: I am a geek!!

#SayHisName Cannon Hinnant


« Reply #39 on: 10 21, 16, 12:20:35:AM » Reply

1965hawks everything you post is irrelevant!

How about posting sensible ideas instead of outright bans?
1965hawks
Sr. Member

Posts: 26544


« Reply #40 on: 10 21, 16, 12:54:28:AM » Reply

D2D, stop pulling a Trump! Stop your irrelevant rambling and explain why gun-control laws in the world's other advanced countries aren't sensible gun laws.
D2D
Republicans believe every day is the fourth of July! Democrats believe every day is April 15!
Sr. Member

Posts: I am a geek!!

#SayHisName Cannon Hinnant


« Reply #41 on: 10 21, 16, 01:02:18:AM » Reply

Because gun control does nothing to reduce crime, it increases it!
chuck_curtis
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Posts: 69007

Let's go Brandon!


« Reply #42 on: 10 21, 16, 09:51:45:AM » Reply

....point out what's not sensible about the common-sense gun laws....

I'll let a federal judge tell it to you.  http://www.guampdn.com/story/news/2016/10/02/federal-judge-shoots-down-cnmi-gun-restrictions/91311216/
Local5th
Sr. Member

Posts: 36960

God is Great Beer is Good and People are Crazy


« Reply #43 on: 10 21, 16, 10:05:51:AM » Reply

Hawks argument may have merit had the right to bare arms appeared elsewhere in the constitution. However, the fact it appeared in the bill of rights,written to protect our individual rights from government, shows the purpose and intent of our forefathers.
dont-blameme
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Posts: 75729


« Reply #44 on: 10 21, 16, 10:09:52:AM » Reply

Do you really believe that hawkswvit will accept that,{both he/she as in one and the same} does not believe in the constitution or rule of law, unless it can be twisted to show in their favor,,,,,,,, in other words neither the constitution or rule of law states what it means or means what it states, in a liberals view~!
Local5th
Sr. Member

Posts: 36960

God is Great Beer is Good and People are Crazy


« Reply #45 on: 10 21, 16, 10:22:42:AM » Reply

There are people out there who must destroy the constitution before then can implement their ideas. It won't happen in one fell swoop. They will will work to destroy it with a million paper cuts.

Attempts to limit/take guns and and their call for us to change our religious beliefs to embrace new laws are only the tip of the iceberg.

 
sweetwater5s9
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Posts: 99142


« Reply #46 on: 10 21, 16, 11:06:13:AM » Reply

The Constitution spells out sensible gun control - "Shall not be infringed".   Stick with it, the founders and the Constitution are right.
sweetwater5s9
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Posts: 99142


« Reply #47 on: 10 21, 16, 11:08:35:AM » Reply

An excellent method for determining how extensive the Bill of Rights protection based on the verb "infringe" was intended to be in the Founders' view is to rely on historical examples. What can be gleaned from their own use of this term in relation to other Bill of Rights proposals? Here are some of them.

James Madison's Usage

The Second Amendment's "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" language is exactly what was proposed as the first clause of the amendment by James Madison on June 8, 1789. In addition to that "infringe" based language, Madison also included this freedom of religion related protection in his Bill of Rights proposals to Congress: “nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext, infringed.” [The Origin of the Second Amendment p.654] Assuming that Madison's intention in preventing religious liberty from being “infringed” was to allow for considerable "reasonable" regulation by the federal government is illogical. In fact, it is clear that the intent of such language was to prevent any interference whatsoever by the government in such matters. The later change to “Congress shall make no laws” language buttresses this period understanding of "infringe" based protection.

Samuel Adams' Usage

Another person who used "infringe" in bill of rights proposals for the Constitution was Samuel Adams in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention. He attempted to protect freedom of the press and religion with this proposal: “that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience”. [OSA p.260] It is unthinkable that such usage by Adams indicated an intention to allow extensive reasonable regulations of freedom of the press and religious beliefs. Instead, such language was certainly intended as the strongest of limits upon government actions, just as in Madison's case with his infringe based restrictive proposals to Congress regarding freedom of religion and the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

Congressional Amendments Committee Usage

There is other informative period Bill of Rights related use of "shall not be infringed" language often overlooked today due to gun control advocates' historical arguments diverting away from the Second Amendment's actual Bill of Rights history. The Committee of Eleven, to which Madison's proposals were submitted by Congress, accepted his original use of "infringed" relative to freedom of religion as well as his "shall not be infringed" language relative to the right of the people to keep and bear arms. The Committee also added Madison's original Second Amendment restrictive language ("shall not be infringed") to other First Amendment rights – freedom of speech - freedom of the press - the right of peaceable assembly - the right to apply for redress of grievances. All of these, including Madison's “inviolable” freedom of the press and his right of the people to speak, of which they “shall not be deprived or abridged” [OSA p.654], were re-stated by the Committee as rights that “shall not be infringed”. [OSA p.680] Once again, it does not appear that such period usage indicated the Committee members understood that religious beliefs could be subjected to extensive reasonable regulations, or that they used "shall not be infringed" with the intention that it would condone extensive and reasonable regulation of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right of peaceable assembly, the right to apply for redress of grievances, or the right to keep and bear arms.

Interpreting this restrictive "infringe" based language in the manner that some advocates of gun control do for Second Amendment usage removes all meaning of the terminology and completely destroys any protective intent of the provision. Such interpretations leave the intended protected rights to be regulated exactly like any other subject placed under the government's power. Such views of the language completely ignore the developmental history of the Bill of Rights, a history that is remarkably well documented because the need for a U.S. Bill of Rights was publicly and privately discussed for more than two full years prior to Congress' proposal of the U.S. Bill of Rights amendments.

Shall Not Be Infringed - Shall Make No Laws
Another interesting period fact is that the style of restrictive language ultimately used in the First Amendment – "Congress shall make no law" - was previously found mostly in Second Amendment related proposals.


David E. Young

    Constitutional scholar and recognized authority on Founding Era Second Amendment developmental history and documents. Author of The American Revolutionary Era Origin of the Second Amendment's Clauses, published in the Journal on Firearms & Public Policy (2011). Editor of The Origin of the Second Amendment: A Documentary History of the Bill of Rights in Commentaries on Liberty, Free Government and an Armed Populace 1787-1792, which was cited over one hundred times in the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals US v Emerson decision and six times in the U.S. Supreme Court's recent District of Columbia v Heller decision. Author of The Founders' View of the Right to Bear Arms: A Definitive History of the Second Amendment, the first period documented book length treatment of the Second Amendment.
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