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 |  All Boards  |  Moved Hot Topics  |  Topic: Court: No right to carry concealed weapons in public 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Court: No right to carry concealed weapons in public  (Read 4104 times)
Local5th
Sr. Member

Posts: 30572

God is Great Beer is Good and People are Crazy


« Reply #240 on: 06 22, 16, 11:27:24:PM » Reply

The people did not really fear a standing army. What they feared was a standing army not controlled by civilians. And to argue that the Second Amendment was included in the Constitution to prevent the rise of a tyrannous government is illogical: the Constitution makes the people themselves sovereign and allows them to either elect or remove from office their political superiors. 

When the constitution was written there was no question the people had the right to own guns therefore nothing was needed in the constitution to give that right. The fear was a tyrannical government would deny that right. That is why they gave us the 2nd amendment. To protect us from people with you mind set.


wmdn_bs
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own."
Sr. Member

Posts: 29663

Bob


« Reply #241 on: 06 23, 16, 07:13:30:AM » Reply

Local5th,
sweetwater5s9
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 99144


« Reply #242 on: 06 23, 16, 07:18:01:AM » Reply

The claim that the 2nd Amendment's language is limited to maintaining organized government militias only developed in the 20th century.   Why?
flgirl
Honored Member

Posts: 6193


« Reply #243 on: 06 23, 16, 09:18:47:PM » Reply

Bull,  Shawks.  That ammendment was passed to protect the citizens against a tyrany government, lnot for a government army.
duke_john
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 59630


« Reply #244 on: 06 23, 16, 09:49:01:PM » Reply

hawk lacks the most basic understanding of why there was an American Revolution.

Let it go, hawk, you lost.
1965hawks
Sr. Member

Posts: 25875


« Reply #245 on: 06 23, 16, 11:36:50:PM » Reply

Local5th:When the constitution [sic] was written there was no question the people had the right to own guns therefore nothing was needed in the constitution [sic] to give that right.


Local5th, the states ratified the Second Amendment with the understanding that it assured the preservation and effectiveness of their militias. Private ownership of firearms was never the issue.


The fear was a tyrannical government would deny that right.


The serious flaw in tat argument is the fact that the Constitution made the people themselves sovereign; the people themselves were the government. Your argument is based on the absurd premiss that the people themselves would elect a tyrannous government to rule over them. Read the original version of the Constitution--the version the states ratified before a bill gf rights was added--and you'll see that document has several checks and balances to prevent the rise of a despot. The argument that the states ratified  the Second Amendment with the understanding it prevented a tyrannous government is not only historically inaccurate, it's also illogical.


flgirl: That ammendment [sic] was passed to protect the citizens against a tyrany [?] government, lnot [?] for a government army.


flgirl,


Your argument  has the same serious flaw as Local5th's. argument. It's based on the ridiculous premiss that would have the reader believe the Frmers wrote a constitution that would've allowed the rise of tyrannous government. If that were the case, the states would've ratified the original (un-amended) version of the Constitution in the first place. Your argument that the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution as an afterthought, intended as a safeguard against tyranny, has no historical basis and, in addition to that, insults the intelligence of the men who wrote that document.


   

















Local5th
Sr. Member

Posts: 30572

God is Great Beer is Good and People are Crazy


« Reply #246 on: 06 24, 16, 12:00:42:AM » Reply

Read your history Bullwinkle. Standing armies are covered in another section of the constitution. The 2nd amendment was made a part of The Bill of Rights to provide greater constitutional protection for individual liberties.
1965hawks
Sr. Member

Posts: 25875


« Reply #247 on: 06 24, 16, 12:43:43:AM » Reply

Local5th: Read your history. Standing armies are covered in another section of the [C]onstitution. The 2nd [A]mendment  was made a part of included in [t]he Bill of Rights to provide greater constitutional protection for individual liberties.

Local5th, first of all , I'm not citing "my" history. I'm citing US history and the history of the US Constitution. Secondly, the Second Amendment, in actuality, confirms a state's right to maintain an armed militia under the Constitution as it had under the Articles of Confederation. Thirdly, the individual right afforded in the Second Amendment is the right to serve (bear arms) in a state's official militia,--not the right of an individual to carry firearms (openly or concealed) for his or her personal (private) use.
duke_john
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 59630


« Reply #248 on: 06 24, 16, 05:21:34:AM » Reply

Shut the fuck up, hawkshit.  YOU LOST.

Non one is impressed with your efforts to point out a spelling or grammar error, especially when your whole fucking premise is ridiculous.
D2D
Republicans believe every day is the fourth of July! Democrats believe every day is April 15!
Sr. Member

Posts: I am a geek!!


« Reply #249 on: 06 24, 16, 06:53:05:AM » Reply

Again, 1965hawks says the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to the people!

He keeps on goose stepping along!
sweetwater5s9
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 99144


« Reply #250 on: 06 24, 16, 08:47:24:AM » Reply

In the court’s majority opinion, Judge Richard Posner wrote that the United States Supreme Court “has decided that the [Second] Amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside.”

As PoliceOne Columnist Ron Avery observed in his excellent column, Dealing with citizens legally carrying a concealed weapon, “Concealed carry folks and cops seem to go to the same tailor — generally speaking, most will not look like dirt bags... They don’t generally have the crotch of their pants at knee height or wear their baseball hat cocked at a ridiculous angle.”

https://www.policeone.com/police-trainers/articles/6062966-Do-legally-armed-citizens-prevent-crime/
1965hawks
Sr. Member

Posts: 25875


« Reply #251 on: 06 24, 16, 01:43:18:PM » Reply

To: sweetwater5s9
in re: Replies #230 and #242

Which source of misinformation are you citing? Where did you get the erroneous notion that the militia-interpretation of the Second Amendment originated in the 20th century? You're talking out your ass again, sweetwater5s9.

In Presser v. Illinois (1886) the Supreme Court upheld an Illinois law that prohibited any group other than the regular organized  volunteer militia of the state to drill or parade with arms. The Court unanimously ruled that the Second Amendment applied only to acts of the federal government, and did not prevent the state from restricting association in a paramilitary organization or regulating or prohibiting drilling or parading with arms.

Tom Pendergast, Sara Pendergast, and John Sousanis, Constitutional Amendments: From Freedom of Speech to Flag Burning, Volume 1: Amendments 1-8 (2001), p. 145   
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