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03 29, 24, 05:27:52:AM

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Biden Does NOT need a BILL to close the border
He only needs a PEN. Thats all he needed to open it.
Thats all he needed to close it. Thats all Trump needed.
Maybe this is just Proof Trump is better than Biden.

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 |  All Boards  |  Current Events  |  Topic: With todays government you dont have to do anything wrong 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: With todays government you dont have to do anything wrong  (Read 51 times)
dont-blameme
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 75675


« on: 04 24, 14, 07:03:59:PM » Reply

just have someone say you did and the storm troopers will converge on you with blood in their eyes ready for a kill.
Bob Huntress
Honored Member

Posts: 9907


« Reply #1 on: 04 24, 14, 07:09:11:PM » Reply

Refer to Justice Scalia's recent remarks.
darkflower
Sr. Member

Posts: 23321


« Reply #2 on: 04 24, 14, 07:18:40:PM » Reply

Nothing new. Now you have an idea of what the Iraqis felt, and what the victims held at gitmo felt when first thrown into that gulag. Though not the tiniest inkling of what they feel after a decade of abuse and hopelessness of being held with no accusation of any wrong doing and no chance of being freed.

If you aren't going to care when your own government abuses others then should anyone care when it abuses you?
dont-blameme
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 75675


« Reply #3 on: 04 24, 14, 08:00:59:PM » Reply

Those being held at gitmo are not victims of abuse, they were on the battlefield and ready to kill our soldiers when captured.
darkflower
Sr. Member

Posts: 23321


« Reply #4 on: 04 24, 14, 08:12:20:PM » Reply

No, they were not. Many were not on any battlefield at all. None are charged with attempting to kill anyone.

You are repeating a bald faced lie.

And yes, they are all victims of abuse. Horribly treated hostages is what they are. It is despicable.

If you don't care about them, why should anyone care about you?
dont-blameme
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 75675


« Reply #5 on: 04 24, 14, 08:20:34:PM » Reply

Care to point out were I asked for anyone to care about me weed?
 
like I said weed they were taken off the battlefield, and you can call it what ever you want, just don't think for one minute they wouldn't remove your head from your neck while chanting god is good god is great!
darkflower
Sr. Member

Posts: 23321


« Reply #6 on: 04 24, 14, 08:24:19:PM » Reply

They were not taken on any battlefield, liar.

And your first post complains about the government storm troopers, so yeah, you are implicitly asking people to care. While you turn around and defend those very same storm troopers doing exactly what you are complaining about.
Bob Huntress
Honored Member

Posts: 9907


« Reply #7 on: 04 24, 14, 08:37:11:PM » Reply

Darkflower, those at Gitmo are not hostages. The Genva Convention only extends rights to those bearing arms in uniform and representing a government, which these individuals are neither. The actual classification of these under the Convention are "Spies & Sabouters", and executing them upon capture is authorized. Because we understand that if troops were to land on our beaches, most people that could would grab a gun, run to the beach and start fighting, we try to not shoot everyone that had a gun. These folks at Gitmo are the equivilent of POW's. Tough being them, but a long war means a long time as a POW.
dont-blameme
Contributor
Sr. Member

Posts: 75675


« Reply #8 on: 04 24, 14, 08:54:18:PM » Reply

Don't expect weed to understand understanding to her means only what she believes to be the truth, and there is only her side.
darkflower
Sr. Member

Posts: 23321


« Reply #9 on: 04 24, 14, 09:36:02:PM » Reply

1. They were not taken on battlefields. They were taken from their homes, their work, shopping, lots of places having nothing to do with battle.

2. Geneva applies to all. Spies and sabatuers are civilians covered by civilian law. Geneva does protect civilians and their basic human rights.

3. They are not accused of being spies nor anything else. Kinda the point of why they are hostages, they are held with no legal authority in blatant disregard for their rights as human beings. They are not pows (only legal combatants can be a pow, everyone else must be actually accused of a crime or released) and they are not accused of a crime. They are, as your first post complained of, hapless victims of brutal storm troopers. Yet you choose to stand with the storm troopers rather than against them. So hmm, you kinda are begging those storm troopers to gang up on you, since you love them so much, and kinda deserve it. If you support it against others, you deserve it against yourself.
Bob Huntress
Honored Member

Posts: 9907


« Reply #10 on: 04 24, 14, 09:55:53:PM » Reply

Spies and sabatuers are mentioned in the Geneva Convention as not being subject to any protections of the convention. They are defined to include any found bearing arms not in uniform or representing a government. I understand Bush's desire to appear humane, yet, I believe they should have been shot when taken, as their presence at Gitmo represents a mess. Preserving these individuals was not required, but, since they were taken alive, what treatment are they entitled to. One the one hand, any treatment is better than the death the law allows, while on the otherhand, if the government waives the authority to immediate execution, what is the minimum standard they are responsible to maintain them as prisoners? In my honest opinion, it would have been more tactically reasoned to simply execute them immediately, as the Geneva Convention allows. I cede that part of the government's "Mercy" is a desire to question them, also.
darkflower
Sr. Member

Posts: 23321


« Reply #11 on: 04 24, 14, 10:03:34:PM » Reply

Your understanding of Geneva is terrible. No, it does not allow you to execute civilians at will. And yes, it does protect civilians. Which is what they are: civilians.

Just because you invade one country does not mean you get to grab civilians from every country in the world and either murder them or hold them forever just because you feel like it. Which is EXACTLY what has happened with gitmo. It is an atrocity and Geneva forbids it. You may only hold legal combatants without charge. You may not hold civilians without charge, and that includes so called illegal combatants (illegal meaning criminal, and subject to criminal law).

You keep implying that everyone at gitmo was in some sort of battle or caught doing something. They were not. And any caught doing something have to be charged with doing that thing and properly convicted. Otherwise innocence is presumed. Geneva demands no less. It does NOT allow you to throw civilians in prison at will and certainly does not allow you to murder them at will (it FORBIDS that).
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