Over the years, I've gone more and more to the right.  I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary (morally, I couldn't support either), but on the political spectrum, I lean right, but I am socially liberal.

I'm for gay marriage, transgender rights, pro-choice (although I don't advocate abortion) etc. 


However, once in a while...I come across something that even shocks me...and makes me think, "what in the fu*k?!?!" 

Some of you may have heard of him/her, but this 11 year old boy is being paraded around like some sort of hero, and "trailblazer."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxdvOLdG_34&t=93s

(I can't embed from this PC)

"Desmond is amazing" is an 11 year old drag queen. 

Watch the video above, and tell me this doesn't upset you and make you wonder, "what the hell is wrong with the parents?  why is the audience applauding this?" 

What are you thoughts on this? 

What is it about this that makes you place this as a left and right thing Bod?  I would agree that there is nothing good about this, but it is nonetheless interesting that you choose to make this something left and right.

(( What are you thoughts on this?   ))

I gave up a long time ago, trying to figure out why people do the things they do.  It just isn't worth my time and personally, it's none of my business...

gwbboo...

that's a good question.  most people would find such a thing appalling and disturbing and I would even go as far as to call it child abuse.

I'm post on a couple other forums, and the most ardent defenders of Desmond is Amazing happen to be staunch leftists. 

but, I'm glad you and I are the same page as this. 

Jigsaw,

that's a fair POV, if it is adults, making autonomous decisions and such, like you, IDGAF if a person is gay, is into certain fetishes...but we're talking about an 11 year old here.

Bod,

Considering some the scum that you and your Proud Boy associates have in the past defended, I am having a little bit of trouble accepting that you actually care about something like this, unless you feel that there is some political leverage to be obtained from it.  Sorry Bod, but I just don't buy what I consider to be feigned concern on your part.

Gwbboo..

Please identify some of these scum I've defended.

Please find one post where I have defended racists, or "proud boys" or Trump. 

and LOL, I'm glad you are still playing the role of Professor X.

I am going to approach this a little differently Bod.  Your defense of those scum comes in the form of your ONLY being concerned about wrong when you are able to tie that wrong to someone you claim to be on the left.  Have you EVER shown any concern about the scum from the right Bod?

Bod,,  I wasn't going to watch the video, but thought I should so I can justify my comments.  As I watched Desmond, I didn't get upset.  Desmond was having the time of his life.  Desmond didn't appear upset, so why should I.  Desmond, also appeared very intelligent, so I think he know what he is doing.

Desmond is at the age of experimentation, as he grows older, he may develop other interests.  Desmond, IMHO, is very much in command of his young lifestyle... 

OH!! and btw,  Has nothing to do with left or right...

Gwboo..

absolutely. 

who do you think is on my ignore list?  all of the grotesque, racists who are on the right. 

They have demonstrated they aren't interested in honest discourse and nothing I say, will make them change their mind.


although, I have to say, I have made progress with Zsq. 

Gwbooo...

and you can ask Oscar, and Justincase about my "history" with some of the right wingers here. 


I've had it out numerous times with Anchor Dan and Kensan and others...

I have reconciled with them though. 

Jigsaw...

that's a very interesting perspective and thank you for your candid opinion. 

I respectfully disagree with you. 

Bod,,  Last I checked, it's OK to disagree. To bad the right wingers hasn't figured that out yet... lol

Jigsaw..

yes it is...

my goal, before I leave this forum is to have people actually.....COMMUNICATE with one another. 

rather than posting stupid memes and ad hominem attacks.


again, thank you for your unique perspective.  I look forward to our conversations. 

(( my goal, before I leave this forum is to have people actually.....COMMUNICATE with one another.  ))


All I can say to you Bod, Good Luck.  As with you, Bod, I have been on this forum, going on 10 years, under two different handles.  I've seen people before you trying to do the same thing, un-successively.

Communicating isn't the problem, communicating with civility is the problem...

Jigsaw, if you don't mind my asking, who were you before?   

I was known as "Corona" back in my Excite/Myway/Polymath days. 

((  if you don't mind my asking, who were you before?    ))


Bod,, I think most, already know, so I don't mind.  On eXcite, it was StanL and for about three years here, it was also StanL.

I remember you on eXcite as "Corona".  I was able to remember, because one of my pet cats was named "Corona"...

if the choice was to accept this kid the way he is and praise him or to punish him and try to make him go against his nature, I would go for Plan A....i have not been around a whole lot of kids, but i have talked to some who have sons or know people with sons who from Day One liked playing with dolls, kind of walked and talked like a little girl, just overall light in the loafers without any encouragement at all.  i believe in almost all cases people are the way they are born, some very butch, some neutral, and some effeminate. 

I faintly remember you Jigsaw...


yea, Corona...

that was back in my drunken, gambling, wild days, insuling those who disagree with me..

I've chilled out a little...

OK Bod, while I am dubious of your intent, I am willing to discuss any issue, up to a point.

So let me address your original concern. 

The incident you refer to is NOT horrible.  Silly, yes. Appropriate?  Who knows or really cares?

Is it indoctrination?  I can see where one might believe so, but I do not think that is the case.

Is this a phenomenon of what you call the Left?

No, examples of this and everything else you want do describe can be found across the spectrum of political/ideological beliefs, or anything you might want to pin it to.

So tell me Bod, if you do not have an intent, then why do you couch your discussion in terms of politics/ideology?  The only conclusion that I can derive from what you have stated is that you believe this to be a result of what you call Social Liberalism.

Hi there Bod - I haven't changed names from those previous forums.

like gw, I don't see anything horrific on the video.  Silly, overblown, outrageous.

Males have been dressing up as women forever.  Are you old enough to remember "Uncle Miltie" - that was back in the 1950s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BzukwCC-2o

Dustin Hoffman in "Tootsie"?

All in the Family episodes with Beverly LaSalle?  Right winger Archie was devastated when he was murdered on the street for his appearance.

A real conservative supports the freedom of expression of being an individual...and the capitalist free market ability to make money as a drag queen.

It's not my cup of tea.  Based on the likes and unlikes on youtube, the vast majority of people disapproved.

So, how far should any disapproval go in a free society?

John walsh,

wait, I have no issue with adults doing this, at all ...to each their own. 

I have issues with children doing this....and to make matters worse, parading him around...sexualizing him. 

This would be wrong, if any child was doing this. 

It just isn't worth my time and personally, it's none of my business...
 
It is worth your time, and it is some of your business.  It has an affect on your community, it has an affect on other children. And when you (an elder adult) refuse to step in then why should others who may hold your opinion in regard? 

My sons, my grandsons, my daughters in law, my brothers and sisters hold my opinion in some semblance of regard, and if I don't react to something then they may feel uncomfortable to react to it.  This is precisely what the tale of the king with no clothes teaches us. 
 
 
 

Desmond is very cute and also very smart because he knows what he is and can accept himself, which is very important, but at this age and it's a very big BUT, as a parent still able to exercise control over him, I wouldn't let him expose himself in this way publicly.  People can be very cruel and unaccepting and he could end up being hurt, however tough he may seem to be and he's only 11 years old. If he wants to dress up and hone his act at home, so be it.  There is so much sexuality in this kind of act and he could be taken advantage of by other adults and judged by his peers in a ruthless manner.  As a parent I would want to protect him from all that until he had matured and was ready to protect himself.

I would NOT ever watch a video about an 11 year old "Drag Queen"!!!!!

In fact, I would NEVER EVER watch ANYTHING related to a "Drag Queen" unless it concerned them returning to NORMAL!!!

(( It is worth your time, and it is some of your business. ))


Now Jim, Who are you to tell what is worth my time or what is or isn't my business.  What I do has no effect on my community.  Most of my community don't know I exist and that fine with me...

 
I'm the kind of person who believes no matter what you do has some sort of affect on your community. Whether you speak up or whether you stay silent.

It is no different than those people who have their children in beauty contests, etc. Bod.  I find most of those things offensive and offer no benefit for the child.  I hate to see kids treated/taught that way, but I don't see that any of those things are THAT harmful to children nor something that most kids won't easily outgrow.  So what is the big fucking deal?

If you find such "entertainment" unacceptable, you should expect to see more of it then.  Your lackadaisical attitude is akin to acceptance.  Especially since you have no trouble taking the time and trouble to speak up about other things that don't sit well with you.

(( I'm the kind of person who believes no matter what you do has some sort of affect on your community. ))

OK! spose you tell me just what it is I could do that would have an affect on my community and then I will tell you if your correct...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(( If you find such "entertainment" unacceptable,

I don't believe I said it was unacceptable, Chuck


(( you should expect to see more of it then. ))

OK! so there is more of it then.  One can choose to watch, or not.


(( Your lackadaisical attitude is akin to acceptance.

Did I say I didn't accept it. I said it was none of my business.   


(( Especially since you have no trouble taking the time and trouble to speak up about other things that don't sit well with you. ))

Show me where I said it "didn't set well with me". When I said it was a waste of my time, I meant by that, it was a waste of my time talking about what kids do with their lives...


 

Okay, so then you are fine with it.  Just say so.  But it ain't just about what kids do with their lives, it's about what they are taught and whether we should promote it or condemn kid drag queens in our society, or just sit on our arses and shrug our shoulders.

(( Okay, so then you are fine with it.  Just say so. ))

I thought I did, Chuck.


(( it's about what they are taught and whether we should promote it or condemn kid drag queens in our society, ))

What it is really about, Chuck, is there are just to many people, who think they know everything about other people, trying to stick their noses into their business.

 
(( or just sit on our arses and shrug our shoulders. ))

What you do with your ass and shoulders is entirely up to you Chuck...

OK! spose you tell me just what it is I could do that would have an affect on my community and then I will tell you if your correct...

Like I said: Everything you do or don't do has its own affect. If you vote, if you don't vote. If you attend public council meetings or if you don't. If you speak up or if you don't speak up. Each one of those you can do. Whether you do is up to you.
 
Personally, I became a member of our Eyes and Ears Patrol and drove around in the wee hours of the morning with a DB Radio reporting back to our Base of any suspicious activity. The Base in turn was on a direct line with the Police Station and reported in whenever they needed to be informed.  We operated under the supervision of the Police Department. Of course that was many years ago. But thats called getting involved too.  Of course I could have stayed home and not reported those things I did see. That too has an affect.

OK Jim, I'll give you the "vote" thingy, but I don't do meetings.

Jim, you don't know me or my town, so you can't possibly know what affects or doesn't affect me or my community and you'll never convince me that you do know.

The rest of your comment is your story, not my story... 

Unlike youse commies that stick your noses in the business of Christian cake bakers, trying to force them to do business with you and whatnot, I'm not suggesting you stick your nose in anyone's business.   A free society operates through participation in free discourse and association and refusal to associate.

(( Unlike youse commies that stick your noses in the business of Christian cake bakers, trying to force them to do business with you and whatnot ))

My point exactly, Chuck. 

So when I give the social misfits an arse-chewing, maybe they will think twice about whether they belong here or somewhere else they are welcome.

There is no hope when it comes to psychopaths like you, JIC.   God knows you don't give a chit what anyone thinks or says about your slimy, foulmouthed arse, and there is nothing you won't do when someone puts you in your place.  LOL

(( maybe they will think twice ))

If it is only a "maybe" then your ass chewing's has no affect. 

Hey, JIC, don't you have a kiddy drag queen show to watch.  LOL

 
LOL... I don't think you quite realize it JIC, But you're already right where we want you. IE: In your place.  LOL

 
I wasn't aware I was being witty. but - OK...  Lets go with that..

Don't cha just love it when people post on a anonymous forum and think they are changing minds or having an affect on same. 

Just like you Justin, when I turn my computer off, puff all gone.  When I come back here, I only read the first hour or two of posts.  Anything past the first 15 lines are usually dead posts...

What's your excuse for flapping your keyboard here?

(( What's your excuse for flapping your keyboard here? ))

See how many cages I can rattle for one, for another pushing some ones buttons.  Even engage in a decent discussion when there is one.  Do I expect to change anybody's mind, Nope.  Do I expect to have an affect on anybody well being, Nope.  Just here for a little fun and entertainment.  Nothing more, nothing less...

No "feeble" attempts with JIC to insult, she goes for the jugular................and for all that effort nobody gives a rat's arse.  LOL

What's with all this "arse" bullshit.  Speak English, "ASS" is the word you're looking for.  lol

You want to rattle a cage, but that not trying to have an affect?

(( You want to rattle a cage, but that not trying to have an affect? ))

If rattling someone's cage on a anonymous forum has an affect to them in the real world, then maybe they shouldn't be on an anonymous forum in the first place.

If I rattle someone's cage, they have two choices.  They can rattle back and have fun doing it  or ignore... 

Rattle back and have fun doing it!

Gwb,

yes, child beauty pageants are absolutely disgusting as well. 

sexualizing children, is wrong...always wrong. 

I have always believed myself to be fiscally conservative but socially minded.  I lean libertarian on social issues, what consenting adults do is their own business, but I do not support allowing any public money to support abortion, transgender changes, etc, or accept the ridiculous notion of non-binary gendering.  My son calls himself "non-binary" and insists on having pronouns like it or they to describe himself and frankly, I think it's the counselor he was seeing in college for his anxiety and depression that drove him down that path.  For cities, states, municipalities, or federal law to say it's okay to have a gender X is imbecilic!!!

But I cannot, will not, support any child who is "pushed" to be considered alter-gendered.  Kids are sponges, they are parrots, they are vulnerable and this is beyond sick!  Just like we saw children being exploited in the pride festivals and parades, they are being exploited and many times sexually abused by NAMBLA and other pro-gay organizations.

Sick, sick, sick!!!