1. The Text of the Constitution Does Not Say the United States Is a Christian Nation

If a Christian nation had been the intent of the founders, they would have put that in the Constitution, front and center. Yet the text of the Constitution contains no references to God, Jesus Christ, or Christianity. That document does not state that our country is an officially Christian nation.

Not only does the Constitution not give recognition or acknowledgment to Christianity, but it also includes Article VI, which bans “religious tests” for public office. Guaranteeing non-Christians the right to hold federal office seems antipodal to an officially Christian nation.

2. The Founders’ Political Beliefs Would Not Have Led Them to Support the Christian-Nation Idea

Key founders such as James Madison and Thomas Jefferson opposed mixing church and state. They would never have supported an officially Christian nation.

Jefferson and Madison came to this opposition in two ways. First, they were well-versed in history and understood how the officially Christian governments of Europe had crushed human freedom. Moreover, they knew about the constant religious wars among rival factions of Christianity. Second, they had witnessed religious oppression in the colonies firsthand.

3. The Key Founders Were Not Conservative Christians and Likely Would Not Have Supported an Officially Christian Nation

To hear the religious Right tell it, men such as George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison were eighteenth-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. This is nonsense.

The religious writings of many prominent founders sound odd to today’s ears because these works reflect Deism, a theological system of thought that has since fallen out of favor. Deists believed in God but didn’t necessarily see him as active in human affairs. The god of the Deists was a god of first cause: he set things in motion and then stepped back.

4. Shortly After the Constitution Was Ratified, Conservative Ministers Attacked It Because It Lacked References to Christianity

Ministers of the founding period knew that the Constitution didn’t declare the United States officially Christian—and it made them angry.

In 1793, just five years after the Constitution was ratified, the Reverend John M. Mason of New York attacked that document in a sermon. Mason called the lack of references to God and Christianity “an omission which no pretext whatever can palliate.” He predicted that an angry God would “overturn from its foundations the fabric we have been rearing and crush us to atoms in the wreck.”

Conservative pastors continued whining well into the nineteenth century. In 1811, the Reverend Samuel Austin thundered that the Constitution “is entirely disconnected from Christianity. [This] one capital defect [will lead] inevitably to its destruction.”

In 1845, the Reverend D. X. Junkin wrote, “[The Constitution] is negatively atheistical, for no God is appealed to at all. In framing many of our public formularies, greater care seems to have been taken to adapt them to the prejudices of the INFIDEL FEW, than to the consciences of the Christian millions.”

5. During the Post-Civil War Period, a Band of Politically Powerful Pastors Tried Repeatedly to Amend the U.S. Constitution to Add References to Jesus Christ and Christianity

Nineteenth-century ministers knew that the Constitution was secular and that the nation was not officially Christian. They sought to remedy that through an amendment that would have rewritten the preamble to the Constitution.

The drive was led by the National Reform Association (NRA), a kind of early religious Right organization that sought an officially Christian America. This NRA had ambitious goals. It sought laws curtailing commercial activity on Sunday, mandating Protestant worship in public schools and censorship of material deemed sexually explicit or blasphemous. (Thanks to the NRA, freethought societies of this period often had difficulties mailing periodicals to supporters. The U.S. Postal Service was under constant siege by the NRA.)

The NRA was successful in many of its legislative endeavors, but it was never able to secure passage of the Christian nation amendment. The group’s proposed preamble read as follows:


https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/5-reasons-america-not-never-christian-nation/#.WszakVjAJt4.reddit

he resigned but I'll bet you he never offered to give back any of the millions of dollars he collected for himself as a "man of God" did he?

Heaven forbid, because Marx tells us that religion is nothing but opioid for the masses, anyhow.  And you know how smart Marx is.

Bill Hybels

Willow Creek Community Church’s founder and senior pastor Bill Hybels runs one of the most popular American churches. He also creates the Global Leadership Summit and the Willow Creek Association. Thanks to his extensive activities, Hybels’ current net worth is approximately $4 million as of 2016.

http://www.the-net-worth.com/2016/09/bill-hybels/

Hybels and Willow Creek are big proponents of wealth/prosperity christianity.

I would invite anyone believing this, too find a City or Town in this Nation where Christians do not out number any other religion 50-1? Do you think they can find such a city (besides maybe Dearborn) Mr. Chuck?

Barack Obama was wrong when he said that.  America is most definitely founded in Judeo-Christian values.

America is definitely a predominantly Christian nation, case closed!

being inhabited by "Christians" doesn't make it a Christian nation omiaqt.   We are a representative republic without religious affiliations. 

Right.  It's values and institutions do.


... founded in Judeo-Christian values ...


Correct.

the Supreme Court doesn't believe our laws were founded on Judeo Christian values dan.   They honor lots of law givers through history.


As the United States Supreme Court judges sit in their chamber, to their right, front, and the left sides are friezes depicting the 18 greatest lawgivers of the world.

The lawgivers:

Menes (first king of the first dynasty of Egypt);

Hammurabi (king of Babylon, creator of the Code of Hammurabi);

Moses (shown holding the Ten Commandments);

Solomon (king of Israel);

Lycurgus (legislator of Sparta);

Solon (lawgiver of Athens, codified and reformed Athenian law);

Draco (first lawgiver of Athens);

Confucius (Chinese philosopher);

Octavian (first emperor of the Roman Empire);

Justinian (Emperor of Byzantine, father of the Justinian Code);

Mohammed (shown holding the Koran);

Charlemagne (Roman emperor, founder of the Holy Roman Empire);

King John (shown holding the Magna Carta);

Louis IX (King of France, creator of the first appeals court);

Hugo Grotius (author of the first book on international law);

William Blackstone (English law professor whose work influenced English and American law);

John Marshall (Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, 1801-1835);

Napoleon (Emperor of France, influenced the Napoleonic Code)

It's damn sure not an atheist nation and never will be.  None of the framers were atheist.  They all accepted existence of the Creator.

no, it's not an atheist nation either chuck.   It's a representative republic without any religious affiliations. 

Chuck, apparently those thinking Americans are not predominantly Christian, pay no attention to the thousands of Christian Church's all across the Nation.

There are a bunch of Christians here omiaqt   But that doesn’t make our country a Christian nation.

Ms. nit-wvit.....

WHY are you, an atheist, so hung up on Religion?

It makes no sense.

If you don't like Religion, stay away from it and leave us Normal People alone.

DUH!!!

Percentage of Christians in the United States:

About 62% of those polled claim to be members of a church congregation. The United States has the largest Christian population in the world, with nearly 280 million Christians, although other countries have higher percentages of Christians among their populations.
Christianity in the United States - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States

So?

LOL!  It doesn't matter what they believe.  It is a fact that our American values about right and wrong stemmed from Judeo-Christian teachings.

no they don't dan.   the idea of right and wrong were around before the Judeo Christian teachings.

You hear the phrase "you can't legislate morality" quite a bit.  But it is wrong.  I could make a strong case for asserting that EVERY ONE of our laws are base on the moral values of the people and/or their representatives.

The law against theft is founded in the moral belief that theft is wrong.

To be a Christian nation we would have to conduct ourselves in a way that Jesus would approve. That`s not gonna happen anytime soon. 

Where do our values come from then?


But they were different ideas about right and wrong.  Christianity brought about a different set of values that had not been seen in society theretofore.  For example, the obligation to care for the weak is a Christian tenant.  When Christianity arose, others in society were stunned that Christians were adopting unwanted babies.  It used to be that society didn't care about unwanted babies.

But we do.  We do have laws to protect the innocent.  We do have laws against theft and murder.

America, founded on Christian values.. liberals suck. 

Yes, American should be considered a Christian nation. "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams

Just because some people believe the United States is not a Christian nation doesn't make it so. The United States' founding documents demonstrate a basis on Judeo-Chistian laws and principles.

In the Declaration of Independence we mention God as whom we petition to guide our nation.

Just because this is 'modern-day America' does not mean things are better or more Constitutional. Also, just because it doesn't specifically mention Christianity specifically in the Constitution does not create a basis for a secular society.

"[...] endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." (From the Declaration of Independence)

I have never understood why it bothers the Godless liberals if a belief in a Supreme Being aka..GOD.  If it gives someone comfort...then why should it bother anyone else?
 
Would we be a Muslim nation if the majority of citizens were Muslim?

Look at your own state constitution...everyone of them gives thanks to a supreme being.

https://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

1. The Text of the Constitution Does Not Say the United States Is a Christian Nation
 
It doesn't have to say Christian. The mere fact it starts off with "they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" means it was more Christian than Secular or Atheist. They used those precise words because those words represent the Judeo/Christian  language, instead of the language of anti-deism.


2. The Founders’ Political Beliefs Would Not Have Led Them to Support the Christian-Nation Idea

That was not the intent. That would have gone against their belief in "Freedom of Religion."  How do you not know this?


3. The Key Founders Were Not Conservative Christians and Likely Would Not Have Supported an Officially Christian Nation
 
Several founders were very Christian.
 
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
John Adams
Samuel Adams
Charles Carrol
Daniel Carroll
Thomas Fitzsimmons
https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214


just to name a few.
4. Shortly After the Constitution Was Ratified, Conservative Ministers Attacked It Because It Lacked References to Christianity
Ministers of the founding period knew that the Constitution didn't declare the United States officially Christian—and it made them angry.
 
Thus was the ranting of a few. Even after the 1st Amendment spelled out the reason for the 1st amendment.
 
 
BTW: There is no such thing as "separation of church and state" as you on the left like to describe it other than the 1st Amendment and within some obscure paragraph in a personal letter written by Thomas Jefferson, which Atheists have latched onto and purposely distorted.

However the 1st Amendment does not say the State can't support a religion. It just says the State cannot support one religion over another.  Which is the entire reason why this country does not adhere to any one specific religion. Look up that word "Adhere."   Still, NONE of the above takes away from the fact that this country was founded on Christian Principles.
 

Christian Principles: The act of "Live and Let Live."  Which pretty much covers every article of the Bill of Rights that have to do with leaving people alone to make their own decisions.  But if you don't like those "Principles" I know a Muslim religion that will make you cry in your sleep to return to Christian Principles.
 
 

Live and let live has never been a christian principle. It is a wiccan principle, however. And fyi, christian principles and islamic principles are pretty much the same thing. Spread the glory of your god, obey your god, set your god and his followers above all others, keep women down, and sex is bad. Pretty much sums up the key points of both religions. None of that has anything to do with the founding of the country, its principles, or its constitution. If you think freedom is a christian principle then you are very confused.

The Constitution is signed ‘in the year of our Lord’. That’s Christ for those of you in rio linda.

I do not have a lord, tyvm.

And that is nothing but an indication of which calendar they were using, as there were and are more than just the one calendar. It is hardly a statement of "we be a christian nation cuz we be using a calendar based on his birth rather than a Chinese calendar, har har."

A christian nation would make it clear with statements like "We are a christian nation" or "there is but one true god/religion and it is the christian faith" and would make blasphemy against the christian god a very serious crime (but not against other gods).

And a christian nation would NEVER have included freedom of religion. That goes against the bible. The bible sure as hell does not say you are free to follow any religion. The punishment for not being a christian is forever in hell. At least until final death. ie it is a capital offense.

anchoragedan: Barack Obama is wrong. The United States of America was founded on "Judeo-Christian values."


To: anchoragedan, omiaqt, chuck_curtis, mystic, wwviomhz, lluke47, kensanIV, jim, and pacifica

JSYK:

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."--John Adams


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/founding-fathers-we-are-n_b_6761840.html

“...American Jewish Leaders Agree with History
Jewish leaders, ...firmly committed to their own faith, understand... what has provided them their own religious liberty in America:

This is a Christian country – it was founded by Christians and built on broad Christian principles...It is in precisely this Christian country that Jews have known the most peaceful, prosperous, and successful existence in their long history:

[C]hristian America is the best home our people have found in 2,000 years. . . . [T]his remains the most tolerant, prosperous, and safest home we could be blessed with...”

pacifica: This [the United States of America] is a Christian country; it was founded by christians and built on broad Christian principles.

John Adams: The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/founding-fathers-we-are-n_b_6761840.html

On both historical and historical grounds, one can argue strongly that the United States of America is not a Christian nation and was not founded as a Christian nation.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-lose/is-america-a-christian-nation_b_1646389.html

 fyi, christian principles and islamic principles are pretty much the same thing.

Nope.  Muslims do not value innocent life like Christians do.  Muslims value strength.  Muslims believe in survival of the fittest, that defeating one's enemy entitles them to their property.  Muslims do not believe in equality.  Muslims condone lying to defeat one's enemy.

Nope.  I don't think you understand what we mean by "Christian" nation.  It simply means that our morals and values stem from it's tenants.  The Christian tenant that murder and theft are wrong is also an American value.

It doesn't mean the religion itself is sanctioned.

Of course we did.  One of the tenants of Christianity is free will.


No it doesn't.


Yes it does.  It says we have free will.


Nope.  It doesn't say that.

To hawks:

Just to be clear, America was founded on Judeo-Christian values, not the religion.

There are more females than males, so is it also a female nation?

Most if not all religions ban murder and theft.

Dan, yes, christianity says only christians go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell. And I don't recall the bible ever saying you have freedom, certainly never made a big deal of it, and saying "you have freedom to obey me or be tortured/die horribly" is NOT freedom at all. It's terrorism.

Wvit never linked to his source starting this thread!

Why?

Only if we were founded in feminist ideology.


Not Islam.


No, that is not what Christians say.  And it's not what the Bible says either.


Yes, it says God gave us free will.

By not giving credit to any source, Wvit is in essence claiming to be the original author of that post.

i said FREEDOM. Not some bullshit "free will to obey or die" which god can shove up his terrorist ass. Freedom. As in live and let live. Not live but send straight to hell for not being a good little slave.

And you know nothing of christianity if you think they say anyone gets into heaven without being Christian (except maybe Jews). You also know nothing of islam, but that is typical of a right winger. And you know nothing of religion in general if you don't know they ALL oppose murder and theft and have done so for thousands of years. It's pretty universal, because gee, humans don't like being murdered and robbed, duh, so their religion reflects that. duh. And most, including christianity, also have exceptions for the "faithful" to use to murder and steal.

Poor poor deluded DF!

Who do you know that would die to save your life DF?

The Forgotten Verses

While the first verse of “The Star-Spangled Banner” is widely known by the American public, the last three verses are generally omitted in performances. Here are all the four verses, as they were written 200 years ago by Key:

....1st verse ...

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
’Tis the star-spangled banner—O long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov’d home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with vict’ry and peace may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv’d us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto – “In God is our trust,”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


That would be the Christian God we put our trust in heav’n rescued land(http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/angel.gif)

So?


God is a terrorist, eh?  If you believe in God, that would not be a very smart thing to say, would it?


Straw man.  Nobody is claiming that.


Oh but I do know about Christianity, and they do not say you have to be a Christian in order to get into Heaven.


Actually, I know a lot about that too.


Not knowing anything about Islam is typical of "right wingers," eh?  Isn't it also typical of left wingers?  In that case, wouldn't it be better and more accurate to say it is "typical of people?"


Oh but I do.  And murder is acceptable in Islam for certain purposes.


No, it is not true that all religions share the same moral values.  Christian values are very much different than pagan values and Muslim values.


So?


Not necessarily.  Some enjoy robbing and killing others.


Nope.  Christianity does not subscribe to that.  Christians do not say it is OK to steal or murder under certain circumstances.  One does not add evil to the world.

I am very happy you gave me this opportunity to assuage you of your misapprehensions, darkflower.  Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

The United States has a population of roughly 323,000,000 of which 280,000,000 are of the Christian Faith. So saying we are not a Christian Nation is denying the obvious.

" Christians do not say it is OK to steal or murder under certain circumstances."

yes, the bible does say when it is ok to murder, and to steal and even take slaves. But if you think christians don't think you have to be christian to go to heaven then you are missing THE key defining point of the religion. I don't know what religion you are confusing with christianity.

A nation of christians is not a christian nation. Whole point of the rwf saying this is a christian nation is not just to make a pointless observation about who lives here but to promote government policy enforcing fundamentalist christian beliefs.

Darkflower when was the last time a significant percentage of Christians excused murder or slavery?

Name a Christian community engaging in slavery today!

I can name a lot of Muslim communities and nations that engage in slavery today!

Democrats are known for the enslavement of the American Black population, since the signing of Lyndon B. Johnson and the Great Society.

d2, not that long ago for slavery, and to this day for murder. And I said the BIBLE says it, which it DOES. Point is, dumbo, all religions have a whole lot in common, and people figured out murder was wrong way before christians or jews existed, and all over the planet.

Darkflower slavery is flourishing in the Middle East and Asia under Islam!

Why do you refuse that slavery?

Why do you continue to condemn people for what happened 150 years ago?

Why do you insist only Christians were slave holders 150 years ago?

Even though every slave brought to this Country was sold into bondage by other African Blacks, or did that fact escape you, ms/mr darkflower?

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
—John Adams



Sorry, but this guys (Jeff Schweitzer) credentials don't allow him to just make shit up, toss John Adams name on it, without supplying a citation for its origin.

https://www.youtube.com/v/UrakW1DjApo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrakW1DjApo

Augie name one war you think Christians should have opposed and tell us why!

Bet you can't!

omiaqt: America is definitely a predominately Christian nation[.] Case closed!


omiaqt,

You're arguing the wrong point. At issue here is not whether Christianity is the most commonly practiced religion in this country, but whether the United States of America was founded as a Christian country, i.e., whether this nation was founded as a theocracy or a republic; or, more to the point, whether the US Constitution defines a political system which is a theocracy or a democratic republic. Of course, and as a matter of fact, the United States of America is not and never has been a "Christian" nation.


To: anchoragedan, omiaqt, d2d!, sine-qua-non, mystic, jim, pacifica, wwv10mhz, lluke47, and kensanIV

https://www.alternet.org/story/155985/5_reasons_america_is_not_--_and_has_never_been_--_a_christian_nation



 

Dark,

No it doesn't.

Hawks,

What?

Well ms hawk1965, I guess we must simply agree to disagree. 

America was founded on Christian principles, but not specifically as a "Christian Nation".   DUH!!

America was founded on Christian values, is a Christian nation and always will be regardless of what the heathen says..

If you don't like it then get the hell out, there are plenty of evil nations you can move to..

Actually you can be one of the small non-Christian minority and leave the 280,000,000 Christians to their Faith.

 As expected, I got no answer!

lluke47: America was founded on Christian values.

l
luke47,

Define exactly what you mean when you say the US was founded on "Christian values."

d2d! : As expected, I got no answer!




d2d!,

You got no answer because no one really gives a damn about the tommyrot your dumb arse is wont to post on this message board. And since you expected no answer, that means your moron ass already knew no one would waste his or her time answering your idiotic question. isn't that right, you mentally challenged ass clown?

"You got no answer because no one really gives a damn about the tommyrot your dumb arse is wont to post on this message board. And since you expected no answer, that means your moron ass already knew no one would waste his or her time answering your idiotic question. isn't that right, you mentally challenged ass clown?"

Do you really expect anyone will respond to your diatribe of hate and insults, ms hawk1965?

omiaqt,

I read the opinionated rigmarole you and the other right-wingnuts post on this message board, and then I post facts that either refutes or debunks your inane posts. To tell you the truth, I couldn't care less whether you trumpnatised morons respond or not. As far as I'm concerned, facts talk and your bullshit walks.

Whether or not this Nation was founded on Christian values or not is irrelevant to the fact, Christianity is the dominant Faith within the United States of America, ms hawk1965!

that doesn't make it a Christian nation omiaqt.   It just makes it a nation with a lot of Christians.

Russia after the Zionist murdered the defender of the Christian faith, the Tzar of Russian and his family

Financed by the  Rockefellers, Putin kicked out their oligarchs and is restoring Christianity in Russia today

Churches are full and new ones being built.  Just the opposite of what’s happening in Europe and to a lesser degree in the USA

The Euro churches are dieing because they embraced liberalism, but the USA churches embraced conservatism and are not suffering the same fate as their apostectic Euro bretheren.

omiaqt,

Evidently, your fallacious argument is based on your defective reasoning and on your penchant for arguing your opinion as fact. Many persons in the United States say they are Christians; however, the fact that many persons in this country say they are Christians  does not necessarily mean the country itself is a "Christian" nation. No matter how many in this country say they are adherents of the Christian religion, the fact remains that Christianity is not the state religion of the United States of America. As a matter of fact, this country does not even have a state religion--Christian or otherwise, just as this republic's founders intended.  Despite what this country's so-called religious right would have the misinformed believe, the United States of America is not--and never has been--a "Christian nation."

Does the Bible say America is a Christian Nation ?

The second beast (earth beast) of Revelation 13 is a kingdom that rises out of the earth, which is an obvious opposite to the sea and denotes that it rose up peacefully, in a place of wilderness and not through war and strife. There is only one end time power that fits this description, and that is the United States of America.

"...the mystery of her coming forth from vacancy ... Like a silent seed we grew into an empire". (G A Townsend, The New World Compared With the Old, page 462)

America wasn't populated until the 1700's when people fleeing the persecuting power of the Roman Catholic Church headed for this new land, so they could practice religious freedom away from the Papacy. And America became a recognized world power by 1798, when the Papacy had received it's 'deadly wound'. So the timing also fits with America.

Revelation 13:11 ...'and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.'

This nation rises with "lamb like" features. Jesus Christ as we know is the true Lamb, so this new kingdom would APPEAR to be "Christ-like" and be based upon Christian principles. Now if you take a look at Revelation 12, you will find a woman, a symbol of God's true church, being persecuted by the dragon, a symbol of Satan and the nation of Rome. This persecution comes from the Roman Catholic Church during the 1260 years that it reigned between 538 - 1798. It says in verse 16 that the earth helped the woman escape from the persecution and false teachings of the Papal Church. This is another reference to the new nation of America where Christians fled to find religious freedom away from the Roman Catholic Church.

Please understand this important point: There is only ONE nation on earth that APPEARS "lamb like" ('Christian') but "speaks as a dragon", and has the power and influence to cause the rest of the world to take the mark of the 'sea beast'.


And that is AMERICA! No other kingdom fits.

sine-qua-non: Does the Bible say America is a Christian nation?

Hell no! The Bible doesn't say a damn thing about America, you shit-for-brains moron!

Well wouldn't want to burst your pompous ass little bubble hawks, but sadly for you and wvtwit Christianity (although declining a little) still remains the dominant religion in the United States, so maybe that subject line, "Christianity still the dominant religion in the USA" would be better suited than the negative one here that pleasures you.

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/chapter-1-the-changing-religious-composition-of-the-u-s/

That doesn't make America a Christian nation does it emily?   

Using your logic ms hawk1965, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Kwait, Syria, and Sudan are not Muslim Countries.

Never said it did wvtwit, but try to read what I posted.  It is still the dominant religion here.  So what are you hoping will overtake it? 

Post #77 proves 69ShitfoBrains doesn’t know logic

And doesn’t read well either (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/rolleyes.gif)

it is the dominant religion but that doesn't make this a christian nation does it emily nor does it have anything to do with this thread.

Given that viewpoint, there are no Christian nations, just ones composed of a lot of Christians.  One wonders then what a Christian nation is, if anything.  One wonders what a nation is, in general, if not characterized by the culture, ideals, and beliefs of the population within its borders -- if it means anything.

I guess even the Vatican is not a Christian State? Just more flawed logic from the alt-left.

omiaqt,

Tell me what "logic" (LOL) your moron ass used to cause you to believe I'm arguing that Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Kwait [sic], Syria[,] and Sudan are not Muslim countries.

1965hawks if majority Christian countries are not Christian then majority Muslim countries are not Muslim!

You really do have problems with the use of logic in a consistent way!

those Muslim countries are run by Muslim governments aren't they ? 

our country isn't run by a government based on the bible.   

Hey.  If we become a christian nation can we throw out all the bullshit in the old testament?

only when it's convenient.

d2d!,

Not surprisingly, you're as stupid and ignorant as omiaqt. It's obvious that you knuckleheads don't really understand the point you're trying to argue and that your argument is based on the false premiss that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Sudan, Iran, etc, are Muslim countries because most of their populations practice Islam. However, that's not the reason they are called Muslim countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion

Don't care!

The bad news for hawk1965 is: 280,000,000 Christians reside in the United States.

why's that bad new omiaqt?   the good news is that our government isn't based on the bible.

Democrats want an anti-Christian government and bureaucracy!

The commies would prefer they are no nations.  They are globalists. 

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

And all that pie in the sky, fairy-tale stuff, that never can be and never will be.

d2d!,

You say you don't care but what you are actually saying is that you don't know what the hell you're babbling about in this discussion and that you've finally realised that you can't defend your fallacious and ludicrous argument. So the best thing your ass-clown ass can do now is to stop talking out your ass, take a seat, and shut the fuck up!

And by the way, omiaqt, although more Christians live in the US than in any other country in the world, the fact remains that the United States is not--and has never been--a "Christian" nation, your continuing to argue otherwise notwithstanding. You can take a seat too, omiaqt

Democrats want an anti-Christian government and bureaucracy!

you just say stupid stuff don't you d2.

Wvit says stating facts is stupid stuff!

you haven't stated any facts yet.

d2d! : Democrats want an anti-Christian government and bureaucracy!


Hey, d2d! Check out what 57 percent of you Republicans wanted to do back in 2015. Judging from the posts in this thread, I suspect you still want to do it.

https://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/25/57-republicans-dismantle-constitution-christianity-national-religion.html

"PPP surveyed 316 Republican primary voters from February 20th to 22nd. The margin of error for
the survey is +/- 5.5%. This survey was conducted through automated telephone interviews and
interviews over the internet to voters who don’t have landline phone."

You really are a comedian, 1965hawks!

Claiming 316 speak for 70 million!

d2d!,

You're confused again; your looney-tunes ass is the comedian in this forum. That's why we always laugh at the funny shit you post on this message board. Yeah, d2d! You're our forum's court jester, a real ass clown.

By the way, imbecile, JSYK, this is how 316 can speak for 70 million:

https://www.surveygizmo.com/resources/blog/small-sample-size/







 

America was founded on Christian principles, but not specifically as a "Christian Nation".   DUH!!


(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/77/77771fbbb2fdb1dfd7e3c8b7e00740c5e0cafc28b8281a2b28abd1d86c0e1729.jpg)

(http://48w41x2exf1mzi1dezjx6mll5.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/images/Dixie%20County%20Ten%20Commandments%20monument.jpg)

wwv10mhz,

1. If the US wasn't founded as a Christian nation, then why do you and other reactionaries continue to argue that it was?

2.  Furthermore, your assertion contradicts the religious right's bedrock argument.  Now you're  arguing that the USA, a nation you and other Christian fanatics claim is a "Christian nation" because it was founded on "Christian principles"and "Christian values," is not really a "Christian nation" after all!

3. Finally, if the US was founded on Christion principles," then why is there no mention ae all of Christianity nor of  Jesus Christ in the US Constitution, the Supreme Law of the United States of America?

I suggest you sit down and shut "DUH" fuck up.

   

how many of those 10 commandments are a part of our countries laws wavy?

 Under Obama and Democrats none!

Under the law?

Four!

It was Five!

But Democrats worked hard to make adultery legal much to society's detriment!

I love it when an adulterer and his equally guilty partner get sued for alienation of affection!

[HIGHLIGHT=#NaNNaNNaN][/FONT][/COLOR][/HIGHLIGHT]

The United States of America was founded on neither "Christian principles" nor on "Christian values." That spurious argument is based on a debunked right-wing myth.

https://alternet.org/story/155890/the_truth_about_religion_in_america:_the_founders_loathed_superstition_and_we_were_never_a_christian_nation

What would be the issue/problem with saying America was founded on Christian Principles?

Is there something wrong with Christian Principles?

What principles were used in the founding of America if not Christian?

Principles of the enlightenment: freedom and equality. Not principles of christianity: obeying god.

If that were the case, Darkflower, we would still be in the Dark Ages!

Are we?

The dominate religion makes the country, that religion.

The founders knew the God of the Bible, the Christian God ...

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

and ..../

The law of nature are the laws of God, who's authority can never be superseded by no power on earth. A legislature must not obstruct our obedience to him from whose punishments they cannot protect us. All human constitutions which contradict his cannot protect us. All human constitutions which contradict his (Gods) laws, we are in conscience bound to disobey.
1772 Robin v. Hardaway, 1 Jefferson 109.

When Americans surrendered the Republic that secured their unalienable Rights to embrace a democracy which rejects those Rights and the God that granted them. While the Hebrews chose a king to hold sovereign power, Americans chose a collective. But in both cases, they rejected God’s blessings.

From a spiritual perspective, Israel’s rejection of God’s theocracy seems similar to America’s rejection of her “Republican Form of Government”. In both case, the nations “despised” God’s blessings of liberty and/or unalienable Rights, and instead opted for rule by a monarch or collective.

In both case, a free people under God voluntarily chose to accept the degraded status of slaves— creatures without God-given rights.

It seems possible that the anger inspired by Israel’s contempt for God’s theocracy in the 11th century B.C. might be re-kindled by America’s 20th century contempt for the Republic that secured our God-given, unalienable Rights. And if God is as unrelenting against America’s contempt as he was against Israel’s contempt, then . . . .

The strong implication is that God will not suffer man to mock the blessing of liberty. While the burden of obedience to God’s law (which is attached to God’s grant of liberty and unalienable Rights) may seem great, it may later seem trivial compared to the suffering imposed by monarchs and collectives.

If the God of the Bible is real, by surrending our Republic and opting for a democracy we may have unwittingly expressed contempt for God and thereby exposed ourselves to the loss of God’s protections or even his punishment.

To learn more about Flavius Josephus visit http:// bible.crosswalk.com/History/BC/FlaviusJosephus/

Anyone else find it interesting the United States Supreme Court has Moses holding two tablet engraved with the 10 Commandments?

Nope. According to christians, it is just a historical statue that means nothing at all.

No Christian would say that DF (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/rolleyes.gif)

Why are you so angry at a God that loves you?

Yes they say it all the time, when someone wants to get rid of it. They say oh no, it is not pushing a religion, it is just history.

How ironic that those who are most for war with islamic countries want to make this country into a christian version of those same islamic countries.

 It does happen as Utah as just as many philanderers as most states!

As far as I am concerned if you can take the misery that comes with the delight of multiple wives go for it!

I don't know why people insist some women never get married!

"[T]he United States Supreme Court has Moses holding two tablet engraved with the 10 Commandments." [sic]--omiaqt


To: omiaqt, d2d!, anchoragedan, sine-qua-non, chuck_curtis, wwv10mhz, mystic, lluke47, jim, pacifica,emilyB, and zsq987


in re: Christian symbolism in the US Supreme Court Building

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/national-capital/

Pope John XXIII > Quotes > Quotable Quote

Pope John XXIII

“The mark of Cain is stamped upon our foreheads. Across the centuries, our brother Abel was lain in blood which we drew, and shed tears we caused by forgetting Thy love. Forgive us, Lord, for the curse we falsely attributed to their name as Jews. Forgive us for crucifying Thee a second time in their flesh. For we knew not what we did.”

The CIA or Catholics In Action and the FBI all Jesuits.

Notice,
No request for forgiveness for the millions of Christians the Church of Rome slaughtered during the Dark Ages.

But the admission of the Mark of Cain which was given by God to rule over the children of disobedience and welcomes all who are likewise in eminity with Jesus Christ ! (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/evil.gif)

you don't seem to like the Jews or the Catholics very much sine.   How come?

Huh?  I didn't say anything about that.

What principles were used in the founding of America if not Christian?

answer;

The law of nature are the laws of God, who's authority can never be superseded by no power on earth. A legislature must not obstruct our obedience to him from whose punishments they cannot protect us. All human constitutions which contradict his cannot protect us. All human constitutions which contradict his (Gods) laws, we are in conscience bound to disobey.
1772 Robin v. Hardaway, 1 Jefferson 109


Rule according to law; rule under law; or rule according to a higher law.

The rule of law is an ambiguous term that can mean different things in different contexts.

In one context the term means rule according to law. No individual can be ordered by the government to pay civil damages or suffer criminal punishment except in strict accordance with well-established and clearly defined laws and procedures.

In a second context the term means rule under law. No branch of government is above the law, and no public official may act arbitrarily or unilaterally outside the law.

In a third context the term means rule according to a higher law. No written law may be enforced by the government unless it conforms with certain unwritten, universal principles of fairness, morality, and justice that transcend human legal systems.


Except those principles, Moses-Gods Ten Commandments, as we see the in the Senate rotunda and expounded upon in,
1772 Robin v. Hardaway, 1 Jefferson 109


So, Gods law is Supreme as the founders agreed, but he allows those with the Mark of Cain to rule for a time.

 
These constant and real attacks on the Founders and claiming they were never real Christians; or that they did not form this country or its constitution on Judeo/Christian values, and that they were too stupid to that understand weapons/armaments would be upgraded as time passed when they formed the 2nd Amendment, is both an attack from within against this country, and the product of the same Obama "Pied Piper" (hypnosis era) attack on the greatest nation on earth - with his  "We are just days away from fundamentally changing the United States of America."
 
Its really a shame that none of you on the Left had the opportunity to see how great this nation was pre-911, and how more readily people of all walks of life got along better than today. You really missed living in a nice place.   And you need to look at whatever parts you personally played, and are still playing, in upsetting that balance that was getting better each day.
 

You don’t seem to be offended by the murder of millions by the Church of Rome nitwit,  how come ?

people have always killed each other in the name of one god or another sine.  that's just the way religion is.   I don't believe the Catholic church of today is killing anyone is it?

April 13 marks the 275th anniversary of Thomas Jefferson’s birthday. A renaissance man with a long and accomplished legacy, Jefferson played a major role in the founding of the United States of America—and establishing its strong protections for religious freedom for all.
There can be no better way to celebrate one of America’s greatest statesmen than by reclaiming his legacy of religious liberty and living as boldly as he did in freedom’s defense.
It is sadly ironic that a few select words of Jefferson—the “wall of separation between church and state”—have been abused and distorted today by those seeking to dismantle the foundations of our republic.
Those words appeared in Jefferson’s now infamous letter to the Danbury Baptists, a religious group in Connecticut concerned with its state government’s weak religious liberty protections.
Shortly following his election to the presidency in 1802, Jefferson wrote:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature would ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

“Thus building a wall of separation between church and state” is arguably the most abused phrase in American history. This one sentence from Jefferson’s personal correspondence has been uprooted from its original context, used to bludgeon people of faith into civic silence, and even advance government intrusion into the homes of the faithful.

In essence, America’s “birth certificate,” as penned by Jefferson, declared that God existed, and that his existence is the basis for all personal, political, and economic rights.
Those who seek to hijack the phrase “separation of church and state” to impose secular humanism on our political life can only do so by willfully turning a blind eye to the volumes of Jefferson’s other writings, as well as his own actions as president. Those actions speak louder than any words.
But even apart from abusing the phrase “separation of church and state,” the left will undoubtedly continue to target people of faith by seeking to undermine their rights of conscience and free exercise of religion.
Jefferson’s victories for religious freedom are our cherished inheritance, and his fight for liberty is now our fight. Now is a time for all Americans—religious or not—to stand up for our first freedom as the bedrock upon which all liberty stands. No better inspiration can be found than Jefferson’s own personal seal, which read, “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”
Those who courageously stand against oppression can do so secure in the knowledge that the author of the Declaration of Independence—and more importantly, the author of our liberty itself—are not neutral in the contest.

For more go to The Daily Signal (https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/04/12/why-the-left-is-wrong-about-jeffersons-wall-of-separation-between-church-and-state//)!

"The constant and real attacks on the Founders claiming they were never real Christians or that they did not form this country found this republic, or base the Constitution, on Judeo-Christian vales, and blah blah blah blah blah...." --jim, reply #126

To: d2d!, omiaqt, anchoragedan, sine-qua-non, wwv10mhz, jim, mystic, lluke47, pacifica, emilyB, kensanIV, and zaq987

in re: America is not, and has never been, a "Christian" nation

Especially dear to the right-wing crowd is the belief that the Founding Fathers were devout churchgoers. Compared with modern-day politicians, they perhaps were. But there's not much evidence they were regular worshipers, at least not with regard to many of the most famous founders. Through most of his presidency Washington did not go to church, except on special occasions. Neither Jefferson nor Franklin regularly went to church either. John Adams did. Alexander Hamilton during most of his life did not.


Claims that the Founding Fathers were particularly religious are plainly false. While virtually all believed in the divinity of Christ, most remained somewhat skeptical of religion and usually referred ambiguously in correspondence to Providence rather than to Christ himself or to God. Debunker Rupert Hughes reports that in political matters Washington went out of his way to avoid invoking the authority of Christ. When the continental Congress  in 1776 decreed a day of fasting  and prayer "to  confess and bewail and confess our manifest skills...through the perils and merits and mediation of Jesus Christ," Washington omitted the reference to Christ when he repeated the admonition to his troops. In his dying hours Washington, a self-styled deist, never mentioned God or religion, and left no money for religious causes in his will.


Franklin is said to have believed in the divinity of Christ but is also reported to have thought there might be other gods as well. He apparently believed strongly in an afterlife; when his brother John died in 1756, Franklin told grieving relatives not o be anxious since all would eventually be rejoined in some kind of heaven. "Why would you and I be grieved by this," he wrote, "since we will soon follow, and know where to find him."


Jefferson, oddly enough, was probably more religious than Washington, but remained iconoclastic to the end. He was a regular Bible reader, publicly announced that he was a Christian, and even wrote a little book on the "morals of Christ." But he also thought Christ's statements were defective because when he was crucified, he hadn't yet reached his peak development of a thinker.


Hamilton poses special problems. He was religious at the beginning of his life and at the end, but not in the middle. In college, according to his roommate, Hamilton was in the habit of "praying  on his knees both night and morning,  From 1801, when his political career began to decline, to 1804, when he was killed by Aaron Burr, he again was intensely religious. But in between those periods, Hamilton's religiosity is in doubt. Historian Douglass Adair is of the opinion that during the Revolution Hamilton was utterly in different to religion. As secretary of the treasury he began to speak the language of religion and earned a reputation as a Christian statesman, bemoaning the Jacobin, anticlerical, irreligious beliefs of his opponents (especially Jefferson). But Adair concludes that Hamilton's religiosity was "opportunistic," that it "forgetting Christ's distinctions between those things which are God's and those which are Caesar's," Hamilton's attempt to enlist God in the Federalist party to buttress that party's temporal power.


Richard Shenkman, Legends, Lies & Cherished Myths of American History, published by  William Morrow and Company, Inc., 105 Madison Ave, New York, NY, Copyright © 1988 Richard Shenkman, p. 35-36




   

Wow, a leftist!

So who cares what he thinks?  I care what you think.  Explain in your own words what YOU think.

You will notice the author never once cites any source to back up his claims!

What IS it about Christianity that HORRIFIES Liberals?

Nitwit says he is ok with the Church of Rome murdering millions of people.

Must be a socialist Democrat alright (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/evil.gif)

"What IS it about Christianity that HORRIFIES Liberals?"

Liberals want serfs like you worshipping only Government.