The mosque is NOT being proposed at ground zero.....period!
 
 
 

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Also, it isn't a mosque
 
no more than a YMCA is a church because it has a chapel inside

In the opinion of many, "ground zero" is the entire area affected by murderous scum.
 
The issue is why there? 2 or 3 blocks away is still too close to not have symbolism.

Why there?
 
That's where the old factory that was for sale happened to be standing
 
 
and in a neighborhood known in New York as "Little Syria" because for decades a lot of Muslims have lived there
 
why else?

why else?





Perhaps the most egregious and blatant example of Islamic triumphalism is the planned construction of a giant mosque in New York, almost upon the site of the horrific destruction of the Twin Towers by Moslem terrorists acting in the name of Allah.

The proposed mosque is to be opened in 2011 on the very anniversary of the September 11, 2001 atrocity — a flagrant insult to the memory of the thousands of innocents who died at the hands of Moslem fanatics and believers, most of them Saudis.

But this, after all, is what jihad is all about. Subdue the "infidel" at all costs. The Islamic obligation to conquer and convert the unbeliever must never lapse. Its tangible manifestation can also be characterized as the mosques of war.
 
Joseph C. Phillips: Tolerance and the Ground Zero Mosque







that's why !

I wonder, and yes, I pray, as to why we have to make this the "holy grail" of all Muslim issues.

Why? I hear people - still in shock and horror over 9/11 being forced by our president to "own" declarations from him that this mosque, in this express location must 'be' - or else.

And I wonder. And yes, I know quite well by now all of the high minded arguments as to why those that think this must mosque "be" are making.

I am just not buying it. Another mosque "needed" just exactly there? Really. Even after hearing not from you or from me - but from those that lost their loved ones to Muslim inflamed hate - from all walks and religious persuasions, saying "please don't do this" - and yet on and on we go - trying to justify this mosque. Because why, exactly. Like putting a Christian Church at the forrever reverant and sacred express site of Auschwitz would automatically exorerate a mad man who perpetrated genocide against all Jews, because of his terrroist agenda in the 1930's and 4's, or whatever. I mean come on - human nature and the imprecise process of healing do not work like that.

Because we don't want to acknowledge the very real hurt and pain, the enormity of the very real terrorist trauma that was born upon this Country and its citizenry INCLUDING ITS MUSLIM POPULATION on 9/11 by those that are to this day still waging a acknowledged terrorist war against America and against this world by those very same Muslim inflamed evil intenders. We would just like to imagine that building a Muslim mosque displaces all of that - instanteously. Or incrementally - because this one mosque has determined all of that to be so?

Sorry Mr. President - you may force it to be so. But I am not buying it. I just am not. Did the organizers of this one specific mosque ever sat down with victims of 9/11 and explain the justifications for any of this - did so BEFORE they demanded this mosque be built within two blocks of The World Trade Center - did they?

The mosque is NOT being proposed at ground zero.....period!

 If that is the depth of your knowledge on the topic, Thank You, But we already knew that, we do not need the basics like you and caserio.! They are already placing a Jewish art center there at ground zero.

911 Words About 'Obama's Mosque'
By Kevin McCullough
Published August 17, 2010
| FoxNews.com
It was something he certainly didn't have to do. But he did it anyway. President Obama stepped into the fray of the single most divisive issue pertaining to terrorism, healing of hurt, religious disagreement, civil liberties, political fracturing, racism, and national security all in one step.
How's that for bringing us all together?
Why a sitting president feels compelled to sit down to a formal Muslim dinner in the first place begs the issue of necessity. Although, to be fair, President Bush also held Iftaar dinners, in the State dining room. But in this case, Mr. Obama, why not send a nice little videotaped greeting like you did the Boy Scouts of America? I mean it's not like it was the 100th anniversary of anything, after all.
No, instead President Obama you felt compelled, not just to attend, but to host the little soiree and then make formal comments addressing the gathering.
Something along the lines of:
But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure."
Question, Mr. President, "Do you feel that all Muslims have a right to exercise their religion?"
How about those around the world who buy into the exact same brand of Islam that the killers of 9/11 practiced? Do you feel that they have the right to practice that brand of Islam in the United States? How about on the hallowed space surrounding Ground Zero?
Even the "moderate" practitioners of *that* faith seem to be having some real trouble coming to clarity on not encouraging their fellow Islamists to be so insensitive.
To date all of two prominent moderate Muslims have had the courage, and endured the death threats, to suggest the mosque be built somewhere else.
But you, Mr. President, we expected better of you, and Mr. Bloomberg, and Mr. Paterson for that matter. We expected those of you who work for "We the People" to have some sort of understanding of propriety, decency, and honor. At the very least we did, and still do expect you to demonstrate some modicum of competence: like pushing the pause button until we know who is funding the mosque, and where the money comes from.
Also a check into the known links between the front man for the effort and terrorist groups wouldn't hurt either.
What we especially don't need and wish you wouldn't waste our time on is meaningless public statements. Are you genuinely so bored that you've run out of things to comment on? Here’s a topic for you:
"Extension of the Bush tax cuts for small businesses so that we can tackle unemployment problems in our nation...” Discuss...
The truth is the Obama mosque is in large measure being favored and given preferential treatment to other communities of faith. How else can you explain why a small Greek Orthodox church in the same neighborhood--which existed prior to 9/11--still doesn't have clearance or permission to reestablish its presence in lower Manhattan?
Americans aren't unreasonable, Mr. President. If we could be really sure, because some investigative body did its job thoroughly, that the kind of Islam being taught in this particular mosque wouldn't be the same kind of Islam that is taught in radical mosques all over the world, then we'd find it somewhat easier to be soothed by your forked tongue.
The problem here is, no one's even claiming to have a desire to look into it.
In Islam there is a long standing practice of building a mosque, a temple, a shrine to Allah's glory upon conquered lands. I know that you and the rest of the "professional left" find it inconceivable that Muslims would dare to think that about America. But you've given them no reason to think otherwise.
You let your Attorney General spit in the face of the 9/11 families by attempting to bring the beasts currently housed at Gitmo back to my precious city to make some grand gesture. But the jihadists didn't see it that way. They laughed at you for your foolishness.

In fact, since you've been in office you've repeatedly apologized to the Islamic world for America's action of liberation to fifty million Muslims, you wholly redirected our space program to the unique purpose of making them feel good about how smart Muslims used to be, and on issue after issue you've sided with the views of the terrorists, even appointing several of the former defenders of the Gitmo detainees to your Department of Justice.
But this last week, even though no one was asking you to, you stepped into the most painful issue related to the hallowed grounds of 9/11 to date.
You chose sides, even when nobody cared if you did.
But now it's in your file. We will discuss during your performance review in November and over the next two years.
And now you own it!
The Obama Mosque of Lower Manhattan... Hmmm...
It does have a ring to it.
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Baldwin/McCullough Radio"now heard on 212 stations and columnist based in New York. He blogs at The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be is in stores now. And host of "The Kevin McCullough Show"weekdays 7 a.m. - 9 a.m. ET on Sirius 161

McCullough is spot on.

Hi Sade

How have you been?

The outrage of building the Islamic Cultural Community Center  which will include a culinary school, gym and basketball court, swimming pool, a Sept. 11 memorial and contemplation space is an embarrassment to what this country stands for.  The lies that are allowed to perpetuate regarding this issue, media is certainly the blame, the TeaParty/GOP leadership fearmongering making division a party platform, the  ignorance of the extreme right-wing followers for not being well informed.
Just look at Sine and BeavisButthead he just posts and quotes everything any right-winged ding-a-ling says.   Simply no minds of their own

I'm fine....recovering slowly but steadily.....I really don't come on here much anymore....the hate and stupidity get tiresome.....
 
Last I knew The United States of America was primarily founded to guarantee freedom from religious prosecution....and yet in 2010 the boneheads don't get that at all.....

The United States of America was primarily founded to guarantee freedom from religious prosecution..

Then you would be wrong, the Pilgrim were not tolerate, nor where the Calverts, Amish  and several that came here..

Religious prosecution happens all the time, last one was in Texas took all there kids, then there was Waco , Mormans on poligamy I could go on and on. You clearly have uninformed opion and that is useless.

Grils - it's not about persecution - religious or otherwise - it's about sacred recognition of what simply and very really IS. WAS. And forever will be. As long as human's recollect. And feel pain. And are entitled to be reminded of much and stand in reverent recognition of such. And be very really impacted by as much. The terroris pursuits of others - religiously "justified' or not.

See my post in regard to the parallels of the lessons of Christianity pursued Auschwitz, the sacred site it forever resides on.

A gym within a mosque blocks from 9/11 and a community "learning" center supplanting for something or another, really girls? Come on... sheez - why didn't the Christians wanting to build a church at the site of Auschwitz think of that one? Because they were, at the very least, not as irreverently detached as some others, I guess...

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.   John Adams

No morals no safety of the Constitution!

Sadie, first of all, it's good to see you on the board and I'm glad that you are doing OK.


Secondly, I urge everyone to click on this link and read the entire article, as it is quite an eye opener .......


William Dalrymple (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/opinion/17dalrymple.html?ref=opinion):
 
... we have seen politicians like Rick Lazio, a Republican candidate for New York governor, question whether Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the principal figure behind the project, might have links to “radical organizations.”


The problem with such claims goes far beyond the fate of a mosque in downtown Manhattan. They show a dangerously inadequate understanding of the many divisions, complexities and nuances within the Islamic world — a failure that hugely hampers Western efforts to fight violent Islamic extremism and to reconcile Americans with peaceful adherents of the world’s second-largest religion.


Most of us are perfectly capable of making distinctions within the Christian world. The fact that someone is a Boston Roman Catholic doesn’t mean he’s in league with Irish Republican Army bomb makers, just as not all Orthodox Christians have ties to Serbian war criminals or Southern Baptists to the murderers of abortion doctors.
 

(http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad158/FrankRob/FR_NASAMosque.jpg)
[Obama text] And Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground. But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country.


Including the part where they lash out at unbelievers with mass-murder, and then erect a monumental mosque to celebrate their feat of blood, their dragging of the bodies?

It turns the White House into a grotesquerie of competing observances, when the President pops in to gladhand Catholics holding a novena in one room, Jews having a seder in another, and Moslems holding a Ramadan supper in yet another, his hands smoking-fresh with blood of a chicken he's just helped slaughter down the corridor where the santeros are staging the gross solemnities of palo mayombe next door to the Wiccans who are "breaking in" the White House with its very first Witches' Sabbath, before hurrying along to mingle with the Satanists who've just summoned Lord Moloch with a prayer circle of their own.


This is insane.
Time to hit the reset button!

why didn't the Christians wanting to build a church at the site of Auschwitz think of that one? Because they were, at the very least, not as irreverently detached as some others, I guess...


Oregon

no one is thinking of building a Mosque at ground zero either!!!!!...WTF is wrong with you people.

Given the number of outright liberals claiming Catholicism as their faith in this country and throughout the world ... a better question would be whether Catholicism and conservatism can coexist. Practicing Protestants are far more likely to be conservative than are practicing Catholics.

The most Protestant countries in this world tend to be the freest and most prosperous countries in this world ... led by the United States.

Interesting story today says most Hispanic youth are turning away from Catholicism.

Given the number of outright liberals claiming Catholicism as their faith in this country and throughout the world ... a better question would be whether Catholicism and conservatism can coexist. Practicing Protestants are far more likely to be conservative than are practicing Catholics.

 
Sine, I suggest that you email those comments to Chief Justice John Roberts and the rest of the "conservative" Catholics on the Supreme Court and see what kind of a reaction you will get.
 
 
ROFLMAO at your ignorance.

You say potaytoe, I say potato - and we both know what we are talking about. 

Come on girl.

It changed from a full out mosque to a "community center' when people started to protest its proposed presence- as if their right to do. Two blocks from ground zero being pretty damned inclusive of any intellectual person's appreciations of terrorist intending GROUND ZERO after all.

Give it up, hon. YOU don't care about the pain and suffering of others - in your own country - too bad for you. Not then and not now. Too bad for you - AND your callous and uncaring sensibilities. And too bad (to date) to those within the Muslim faith that have yet to sit down (or stand up) and hold their own faith and those that profess to belong to it - accountable.

Just like those that tolerated Auschwitz knowingly in their midst and went to Christian churches every Sunday,did  too. Only 70 years ago.

Goodness, gracious. The cruel and UNINTELLECGTUAL hypocrisy flows thick on here today.

lm oregon, why do you continue to spit on the hallowed ground of the three hundred innocent Muslims who died at the WTC on 9/11, including the Muslim first responders who lost their lives trying to save others from the rubble and a pregnant Muslim woman who was on one of the planes that crashed into the buildings?
 
Never mind......
 
 
 

Ah, hon - you and I agree - the DISCUSSION is a Muslim one, indeed.
 
As it was a Christian one to own 70 years ago - when (after the fact) Catholic hypocrites thought a Catholic presence at or near Auschwitz would appease for what was needed then and now - which is open and honest discussion about it all - which perhaps has yet to fully occur even today.
 
Time is now indeed for Muslims at a cross roads WITH THE WORLD to stand with terrorists allowed to intermingle and disrepect their faith - or stand up and take action IN THEIR MIDST against them.
 
A "community center"at what is for all intents and purposes ground zero, which is very really a mosque does none of that. Certainly does nothing - one bounced ball at a time- to honor one of those or 300 of those that were Muslim that were targetted, tortured and killed on 9/11. On that sacred, reverent georgraphic location that is now and will forevermore be ground zero.
 
 

And too bad (to date) to those within the Muslim faith that have yet to sit down (or stand up) and hold their own faith and those that profess to belong to it - accountable.


Oregon

your ignorance is at an abundance....

First of all this never was a Mosque....the right-wing perpetuated this lie.
as far as hypocrisy is concerned, I cannot believe how you teabaggers taut the freedoms based on the constitution...but will trample on other American citizens rights, based on the emotional issue of the day.

You are blanketing a who race of people based on an extremist few.   

Turn about is fair play.... how about we now peg you as an extreme right-wingnut Christian cross burning KKK member, who may blow up an abortion clinic.

Sine, I suggest that you email those comments to Chief Justice John Roberts and the rest of the "conservative" Catholics on the Supreme Court



The REST of the Cons. ,  LOL!

Anyway, Why would I do that?  I dont speak in absolutes like you do cause thats just dumb, ya know?


ROTFLMAO @ your stupidity!

Turn about is fair play.... how about we now peg you as an extreme right-wingnut Christian cross burning KKK member, who may blow up an abortion clinic.
 
Cheryl, you hit a bullseye with that comment.

oregon must be a pagan since she hates catholics and muslims equally
 
betcha I could say something nasty about pagans

The REST of the Cons. ,  LOL!



Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr..................................Roman Catholic
Justice Antonin Scalia................................................Roman Catholic
Justice Anthony Kennedy............................................Roman Catholic
Justice Clarence Thomas............................................Roman Catholic
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.......................................Jewish
Justice Stephen Breyer...............................................Jewish
Justice Samuel Alito..................................................Roman Catholic
Justice Sonia Sotomayor............................................Roman Catholic
Justice Elena Kagan...................................................Jewish

According to the logic on this board we should be able to build a christian monument in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Cheryl - your attempt at revisionist history is juvenile. Really. Pass that along to President Obama, why don't you. It is what it is. It was what a select group of Muslim's caused and created it to be.

You cannot bounce a ball (at a community center) away from any of it. Ever.

But you can allow for Muslims to address how it is THEY move forward as a faith from 9/11. And the perceptions an entire world has that some of them are to be very really feared even today. Even in this country. As our intelligence community TRUTHFULLY continues to reveal to us all that they are. As the fact Obama has yet to close Gitmo concedes to us all - in very really honest terms.

We learn from the past only by owning it all - and recognizing the full out pain of it all. Not by hoping and dreaming about it all going away. Revisionistically.

Fact is our nation is at war with a recognized MUSLIM entity that is entrenched in this country and across the globe. Our president charged with fighting that very real enemy as our Commander in Chief too.

Don't lecture me about kum ba yah moments you envision at that Community Center that only turned into a community center when people learned of what was a proposed mosque's existence. You demean all Americans at war with Al Qaeda, with The Taliban and with cloistered and secreted Muslim terrorists everywhere, by trying to do so.

Until and if all Muslims can congregate and openly discuss all of the above it ain't my issue to revisionistially sit around and try to 'clean' up.

Ever.

Fact is our nation is at war with a recognized MUSLIM entity that is entrenched in this country and across the globe. Our president charged with fighting that very real enemy as our Commander in Chief too.

Oregon...
 
fact is our nation is at war with a RECOGNIZED lying racist erratic illogical right-winged extremists such as yourself.  Who is determined to set the clock back.