All Boards => Moved Hot Topics => Topic started by: WWV10MHZ on 12 14, 15, 11:37:59:PM



Title: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 14, 15, 11:37:59:PM
HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of Law-Abiding Gun Owners with MILLIONS and MILLIONS of firearms hurt NO ONE
   and NEVER WILL hurt anyone.

By comparison, there are a HANDFUL of tragic events by mostly mentally challenged people.

Yet, Libs/Dems/Fags want to try to convince everyone that GUNS are the problem and GUNS need to be taken
   away from EVERYONE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!

NEWS FLASH: GUNS don't shoot all by themselves! Guns just sit there quietly until a PERSON picks one up and
   uses it improperly and unlawfully.  GUNS don't kill, PEOPLE kill!!!!!!




DUH!!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: gwboolean on 12 14, 15, 11:57:19:PM
Tell that to those thousands of Americans who die every year due to bullet wounds.  Don't think they will buy the TrEA$on party smoke you are blowing out your ass.  DUH!!!!!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Jim on 12 15, 15, 12:37:50:AM
 
Guns are like naked men that are fully tied up.
They can't do a damned thing on their own and only shoots off when someone gently strokes or tickles that dangling protrusion hanging down.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: gwboolean on 12 15, 15, 12:43:39:AM
Maybe if you didn't spend so much time stroking a tool Komerade Jim, there might be fewer problems with guns.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 12:46:19:AM
Maybe if you didn't spend so much time stroking a tool Comrade Gw, you might have fewer problems with guns.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: gwboolean on 12 15, 15, 12:47:05:AM
Afraid I was unable to do that Komerade DiddleDik.  Could never get that tool out of your mouth to stroke it.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 12:48:09:AM
Afraid I was unable to do that comrade Gw.  I could never get that tool out of your mouth to stroke it.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Jim on 12 15, 15, 01:33:58:AM
  (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/richedit/upload/2k268d683d6f.jpg)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 15, 15, 07:43:19:AM
Jim commends dumbass DVD for somehow managing to repeat what gwbolean said.  I guess that's good enough for a compliment- a right winger who can copy and paste somebody else's words and post them as his own!!

If guns are not dangerous in any way, by themselves, then why not insist kids be allowed to buy and carry guns to school, as soon as they have enough hand to eye coordination to hold a gun steady and shoot as accurately as adult gun nuts that want to carry a gun around can?  By the age of 4 or 5.  After all, we leave knives lying around the kitchen, almost every kid as access to a baseball bat that could crack a skull very easily, especially the skull of another grade school kid. Just arm them and then dare any 125 pound adult loon from coming to that grade school and using his assault weapon and high capacity clips to fire 157 rounds in a 5 minute attack killing 20 kids and their teachers!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 15, 15, 08:16:50:AM
The police can prevent youth gun violence by focusing on identifiable risks. While gun violence seems to pervade our society, it is remarkably clustered among high-risk people, in high-risk places, at high-risk times. This concentration of violence provides an important opportunity for police.

For police agencies, the most pressing concerns regarding youth gun violence are why offenders target particular people, at particular places, at particular times. However, it is also important to recognize that youth gun violence is often linked to a variety of risk factors beyond the scope of problem-oriented policing. For example, it has been linked to changing demographics, adverse economic conditions, family disruption, media violence, and poor parenting skills.

Youth gun violence is only one of many youth-related problems police must handle. The following require separate analysis and response:
  • gang formation,
  • gang intimidation,
  • gang crime,
  • youth drug dealing,
  • youth drug use,
  • underage drinking,
  • gun availability to youth,
  • gun possession by youth,
  • illegal gun markets,
  • street drug markets,
  • disorderly youth in public places,
  • assaults in and around bars,
  • street cruising, and
  • truancy.
However, gangs are not always behind youth gun violence. In some cities, criminally active groups who are not considered “gangs” are major gun offenders.  In Baltimore, violent groups active in street drug markets were involved in numerous homicides.   

The research confirms a high degree of overlap between victim and offender populations. It is important that you determine whether this overlap exists in your jurisdiction.

Some key elements of the “pulling levers” approach to prevent gun violence are also part of Richmond, Va.’s well-known Project Exile to deter convicted felons from illegally carrying guns. This program is essentially a firearms sentence-enhancement initiative, as offenders are diverted from state to federal courts. At the heart of the project, all Richmond felon-in-possession cases are prosecuted in federal courts, with the defendants’ facing an average five-year prison sentence if convicted. The project also includes training for local police on federal statutes and search-and-seizure procedures, a public relations campaign to increase community involvement in fighting gun crime, and a massive publicity campaign to warn potential offenders about zero tolerance for gun crime and about the swift and certain federal sentence.


The Center for Problem-Oriented Policing is a non-profit organization comprising affiliated police practitioners, researchers, and universities dedicated to the advancement of problem-oriented policing.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 15, 15, 08:25:56:AM
Those 20 kids don't seem like the type...It is just insane how many gun nuts want to act like the fact we lead the world in gun saturation as a society has NOTHING to do with American being 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than any citizen of any other modern country, are that there are 20 kids a day treated for gun shot wounds each day in this country...One kid dies every other day from being shot.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: william H on 12 15, 15, 08:46:45:AM
Liberals would try to have us believe that all gun owners are killers but that all liberals are not idiot welfare trash LIBERAL LOGIC AT WORK

(http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/richedit/upload/2ke95fe42f53.jpg)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 10:20:13:AM
 
Jim commends dumbass DVD for somehow managing to repeat what gwbolean said.  I guess that's good enough for a compliment- a right winger who can copy and paste somebody else's words and post them as his own!!

If guns are not dangerous in any way, by themselves, then why not insist kids be allowed to buy and carry guns to school, as soon as they have enough hand to eye coordination to hold a gun steady and shoot as accurately as adult gun nuts that want to carry a gun around can?  By the age of 4 or 5.  After all, we leave knives lying around the kitchen, almost every kid as access to a baseball bat that could crack a skull very easily, especially the skull of another grade school kid. Just arm them and then dare any 125 pound adult loon from coming to that grade school and using his assault weapon and high capacity clips to fire 157 rounds in a 5 minute attack killing 20 kids and their teachers!!
Nominated for stupidest post of the month!

You don't let little kids handle firearms because little kids are not responsible enough to use them!

The gun itself isn't the problem but the maturity of the child is!

Do you leave knives laying around and easily accessible by children?

That is stupid!

If you were a school you would be sued for doing that!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 15, 15, 10:25:07:AM
Guns don't kill people. Husbands that come home early do.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 10:26:07:AM
 
Guns don't kill people. Husbands that come home early do.
Not any more as cheating has become so commonplace as to be the norm rather that the exception!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 15, 15, 11:28:57:AM
D2D, are you intent on being an obnoxious jerk your entire life, or do you think you will mature at some point?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 11:38:31:AM
Wmdn says telling the truth and exposing lies is being a jerk!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 15, 15, 11:38:58:AM
guns have only one purpose , that is to kill

to be technically correct it's the bullet

but either way sick people think a gun imparts manhood on a toter

it doesn't


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 15, 15, 04:00:21:PM
Wmdn says telling the truth and exposing lies is being a jerk!

No, I said you are an obnoxious jerk. And actually, I merely asked if you planned to remain so, or if you planned to mature one day. You chose to not provide an answer. Perhaps if you tried telling the truth and exposing lies, that would prove me wrong. Give it a try sometime.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 04:03:48:PM
Guns have only one purpose , that is to defend the lives of yourself or loved ones!

To be technically from criminals liberals let out of prison!

But either way sick people aka liberals think a gun imparts manhood on a toter!

It doesn't!

Liberal bigotry against Americans makes them think only government has rights and the people have none!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 04:06:08:PM
Wmdn tries to justify his childish name calling with more lies!

Pity him!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 15, 15, 05:06:27:PM
Guns have only one purpose , that is to defend the lives of yourself or loved ones!

To be technically from criminals liberals let out of prison!

But either way sick people aka liberals think a gun imparts manhood on a toter!

It doesn't!

Liberal bigotry against Americans makes them think only government has rights and the people have none!

You are a moron, but let me try to school you just a little.

Guns have more purposes than those you mentioned in your little bit of idiocy...

Guns are used for hunting.
Guns are use for shooting clays.
Guns are use in target shooting.
Guns have been used as signaling devices.
Guns have many purposes, all of them valid.

In fact every one of them makes more sense than you do with your ignorant little attempt at insults. You out yourself as a simpleton with every post. Say what you like, but even other right wingers know how stupid you are and avoid you like a fat kid avoids exercise.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 15, 15, 05:27:54:PM
Every one of those activities protect your life and that of your loved ones by defending your life, providing food thereby keeping you alive and by target practice making you proficient enough to do both!

I don't know why you are defending that gun grabbing moron Caserio!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 15, 15, 06:31:06:PM
I'll bet you a year's wages that many thousands of times more people hunt for sport than hunt out of necessity to feed themselves or their families. I hunt every year and let me say this about that. I could buy a lot of beef for what it costs me to get a few hundred pounds of venison. Don't misunderstand, I plan to continue, but it is as much for sport, and because I like venison and other game more than I do beef.

As for shooting clays helps you be more proficient at shooting intruders, please tell me how many intruders you see flying through the air at thirty yards.

How many intruders do you think are shot at 200 yards with a high powered rifle?

Don't be so obtuse. Defend the second amendment on its own merits. There is no reason to make up stupid excuses like you so often do about a variety of topics.

Grow up and be a man. Stop acting like a thirteen year old.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 15, 15, 06:35:46:PM
Our Second Amendment right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution. Enough said.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 16, 15, 11:41:07:AM
I believe your silence indicates you agree, right D?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 11:46:42:AM
I don't understand you!

You side with those who would strip you of your Second Amendment rights in a heart beat!

You make excuses for them!

But you still claim to be for the Second Amendment!

Don't you see how contradictory that is?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 16, 15, 11:52:39:AM
Some who are on the left with social/economic issues do back the Constitution's 2nd Amendment although they are far a few between.   More should, imo.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 16, 15, 12:17:13:PM
No democrat of any power has ever called for a ban on guns or confiscating any guns by force.  Period.  All people believe in some common sense restrictions, like age limits, no shoulder fired ground to air missiles, etc., and sane people believe also that universal background checks and a ban on assault weapons and high capacity clips are needed. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 12:29:17:PM
 
No democrat of any power has ever called for a ban on guns or confiscating any guns by force. 
That is a flat out lie!

Democrats in Chicago, Washington DC, New York, Illinois, San Francisco have all not only called for gun bans but actually banned guns!

Did you really think you could get away with such a blatant lie?

All people believe in some common sense restrictions, like age limits, no shoulder fired ground to air missiles, etc., and sane people believe also that universal background checks and a ban on assault weapons and high capacity clips are needed. 
History has proving magazine restrictions and assault weapons bans do nothing to stop crime and only harm the law abiding!

We already have universal background checks, age limits and no shoulder fired ground to air missiles (though such limits have been proven wholly ineffective in reducing crime)!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 16, 15, 01:36:13:PM
You do the Second Amendment no favors by trying to be as obnoxious as Trump. Normal people view you the same way. Nuttier than a fruitcake and probably dangerous. Those of us that know for sure that you are all show and no go can comfortably sit back and have a good belly laugh at your expense, but people that don't know you quite as well would view you as a potential mental case searching for a public place to shoot up. You aren't the only one, and because of that you make it difficult to persuade the masses that the Second Amendment is worthy of protection. I will do things my way, and I suspect you will never be smart enough to understand how to get things accomplished without a lot of bluff and bluster. You are really a detriment to the cause.

Ghandi was successful by calmly, non-violently, and with reserved passion consistently presenting his case. The same can be said of Dr. King. Learn from them or go on the way you are and losing.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 01:53:58:PM
I value the Second Amendment!

You value it watered down!

I oppose watering it down because I know if it is watered down everntually the rest of the Bill of Rights will be watered down to the point we are no longer free!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 16, 15, 03:10:49:PM
I value the Second Amendment!

You value it watered down!

I oppose watering it down because I know if it is watered down everntually the rest of the Bill of Rights will be watered down to the point we are no longer free!

No you don't D. You don't value it at all or you would stop being a dick on an internet forum and write calm cool and collected emails and letters to you elected representatives, on both sides of the issue. You would write in those messages how much you value the work they do, and their contribution to protecting the Constitution. The entire constitution including the Second Amendment. You might explain the direction of your vote depends on theirs. You must do this without denigrating a political party, especially the party you are trying to convince. How you end up voting is your own business. Nobody but you knows that. I doubt you'll pay any attention and will continue thinking you can convince folks by insulting and name calling and otherwise making yourself appear to be a lunatic. It takes all kinds, and you're just one of them.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 03:13:54:PM
Actually, the I have insulted no one!

I have only posted the truth!

Again, I ask, why are you for a watered down Second Amendment?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 03:22:28:PM
WWV10MHZ: NEWS FLASH: GUNS don't shoot all by themselves! [...] GUNS don't kill, PEOPLE kill!!!!!! [sic]


Guns don't ill, people do?


What exactly is wrong with the "guns don't kill, people kill" argument?


"Everyone's heard it, a lot of people believe it, and some even think it settles the whole gun control debate. (After all, that’s why it’s the NRA’s slogan, and why people brandish it on bumper stickers and post it endlessly on facebook (https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/social-networking).)"


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do













Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 03:24:40:PM
1965hawks, link to one incident where a gun killed anyone without a person pulling the trigger!

You cannot because it never happened!

What we need is criminal control not gun control!

Myth: Prison isn't the answer to crime control
Fact: From 1960-1980, per capita imprisonment for violent crimes fell from 738 to 227. In the same period, violent crime rates nationwide tripled.
Fact: Why does crime rise when criminals are released from prison early? Because they are likely to commit more crimes. 67.5% were re-arrested for new felonies or serious misdemeanors within three years. Extrapolating, those released felons killed another 2,282 people.(187)
Fact: 45% of state prisoners were, at the time they committed their offense, under conditional supervision in the community – either on probation or on parole.(188) Keeping violent convicts in prison would reduce violent crimes.
Fact: Homicide convicts serve a little more than ½ of their original sentences.(189) Given that men tend to be less prone to violent behavior as they age (190), holding them for their full sentences would probably reduce violence significantly.
Fact: Los Angeles County saw repeat offender and re-arrest rates soar after authorities closed jails and released prisoners early. In less than three years, early release of prisoners in LA resulted in:191
• 15,775 rearrested convicts
• 1,443 assault charges (192)
• 518 robbery charges (42)
• 215 sex offense charges (42)
• 16 murder charges (42)

(42) Weapons sell for just £50 as suspects and victims grow ever younger, The Times, August 24, 2007
(187) Reentry Trends in the U.S., Recidivism, Department of Justice, 1999
(188) US Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1991
(189) Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November , 2001
(190) Homicide rates peak in the 18-24 year old group, Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database
(191) Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll, Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2006
(192) Keep in mind these are just charges. Each arrested convict may have committed multiple crimes.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 03:36:23:PM
Wmdn, you still haven't provided proof I insulted anyone!

You haven't proven anything I said or quoted was wrong!

You can attack me all you want but that doesn't alter the fact I am correct in what I say!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 03:52:53:PM
D2D,

You're trying to change the subject by interjecting a red herring into the discussion. The issue here isn't whether a firearm has ever killed anyone without a human squeezing the trigger. It's the NRA's illogical, bumper sticker slogan: "Guns don't kill, people kill."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 03:58:36:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 16, 15, 04:06:53:PM
D2D,

You're trying to change the subject by interjecting a red herring into the discussion. The issue here isn't whether a firearm has ever killed anyone without a human squeezing the trigger. It's the NRA's illogical, bumper sticker slogan: "Guns don't kill, people kill."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do

Hawks, what exactly is illogical about that slogan, other than you don't like it?

Wmdn, you still haven't provided proof I insulted anyone!

You haven't proven anything I said or quoted was wrong!

You can attack me all you want but that doesn't alter the fact I am correct in what I say!

You insult my intelligence by suggesting you can argue your way to success. Trust this, I am on the same side of the second amendment issue, with a different approach. I think my way makes more sense.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 04:08:42:PM
OK, what is your approach?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 04:23:24:PM
D2D: 1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!

D2D,

I've never made that claim so I won't waste my time trying to prove it; that's the straw man your lying ass propped up to attack and "refute."

You're avoiding the issue, babbling about my not providing proof that a firearm has ever killed by it's own volition. But that's not the issue here;t hat's a red herring. What you haven't done is pointed out where Dr. Johnson's article in Psychology Today lacks merit. What you haven't done is provide evidence that proves his opinion false.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 04:29:18:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 04:33:32:PM
D2D,

So you stand fast and obstinately continue to defend your position that guns don't kill. Is that correct?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 04:35:28:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 04:45:21:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!D2D,

So you're still arguing that guns don't kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, D2D.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 16, 15, 04:45:41:PM
OK, what is your approach?

I already explained it, but here you go...

Write calm cool and collected emails and letters to your elected representatives, on both sides of the issue. You would write in those messages how much you value the work they do, and their contribution to protecting the Constitution. The entire constitution including the Second Amendment. You might explain the direction of your vote depends on theirs. You must do this without denigrating a political party, especially the party you are trying to convince. How you end up voting is your own business. Nobody but you knows that.

Also, stick to one issue per email, phone call, or letter.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 16, 15, 04:47:40:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!D2D,

So you're still arguing that guns don't kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, D2D.

I have to agree with D on this one.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 06:11:07:PM
wmdn_bs: I have to agree with D on this one.

wmdn_bs,

Stay focused! Don't let D2D's red herring distract you!

NRA slogan: Guns don't kill, people do.

D2D's red herring: Guns don't kill on their own volition.

What D2D is saying is completely different from what the NRA slogan says. A careful reading reveals that the NRA slogan declares unequivocally that guns don't kill. Period. on the other hand, D2D's assertion can be taken to mean that, yes, guns do kill (but not on their own free will). Admitting that guns actually kill people would be anathema to the NRA's propagandists. But, of course, D2D has proven to be too dimwitted to understand and apply critical thinking and sound logic. So she continues to defend the NRA's illogical slogan with an argument that's even more illogical than the NRA's own slogan.





   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 16, 15, 06:18:15:PM
the purpose of a gun is to kill

we have enhanced their killing power for years

we have bragged of their killing power for years

bigger guns kill more faster and more better

it's the kill factor that sells guns, stupid


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 16, 15, 06:44:14:PM
I've said it myself many times. Guns don't kill, people do.

"The Rifle has no moral stature since it has no will of its own..."

Jeff Cooper


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 07:10:36:PM
wmdn_bs: I've said it myself many times[:] Guns don't kill, people do.

wmdn_bs (and D2D)

When a person is shot dead, what is listed as the cause of death on the death certificate--the mortal wound caused by the gun or the person who shot the gun?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 07:54:33:PM
So, according to 1965hawks people do not murder each other with guns but gun shot wounds murder people?

The twisted logic of liberals is baffling!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 08:19:19:PM
D2D: So, according to 1965hawks people do not murder each other with guns but gun shot wounds murder people? The twisted logic of liberals is baffling!


No, you lying little bitch. I provided evidence to support my position that guns kill people, a fact that debunks the NRA's twisted logic that has duped you, and many other dumbed-down gun loons into believing the illogical catchphrase that "guns don't kill, people kill."

And, by the way, when did I say people don't commit murder, you pathological liar? When a person is charged with committing murder with a firearm, that person stands trial for murder, not the firearm he or she used. The firearm the accused used to commit the murder is called the murder weapon--the instrument the accused used to inflict the mortal wound. Guns kill, D2D. It's your continually arguing that they don't is what's truly baffling.

 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 08:36:21:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 16, 15, 08:57:06:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!

D2D is proving what an ass clown she is.

HAHAHAHA


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 16, 15, 08:58:46:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 17, 15, 02:04:06:PM
Just like the no democrat of any import has called for any ban on all guns or called for any forced confiscation of any guns, no one with an IQ claims can shoot people all by themselves.  This is the level of intelligence of gun nut supporters- the gist of their argument- the honey to their bee- the apple of their eye - the crowning of their jewel - the monkey of their wrench...NO GUN HAS EVER SHOT ANYBODY OF THEIR OWN VOLITION....hilarious!!  But what they cannot deny or even accept, apparently, is that WITH A GUN,  even somebody as wimpy as Donald Trump would be a bigger threat to nearby strangers than an enraged Mike Tyson would be without a gun.  Duh.  Guns work.  They help chickenshit assholes and punks kill people who would destroy them in a fair fight.  They give crazed loons the fake macho incentive to even try to take over a grade school classroom, or take over a Batman movie, or shoot up an office party at a clinic that helps disabled people.  That is why we need common sense gun laws.  To keep assault weapons and high capacity clips out of the hands of all citizens, because there is no way of predicting when somebody is going to snap and decide to take out as many people as they can with them. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 17, 15, 02:08:42:PM
Again, Obama himself has called for a ban on assault weapons!

Cities like New York, Chicago, Washington DC, San Francisco have all banned guns and all are run by democrats!

Why do you keep spewing obvious lies, Scott?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 17, 15, 05:36:15:PM
a ban on certain weapons, you stupid ass clown, is not the same as a complete ban on all weapons.  even Reagan was on board for the assault weapons ban, and helped get it passed in 1994.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 17, 15, 06:44:28:PM
NOTHING can be MORE obvious and truthful than the fact that:

GUNS do NOT kill people, PEOPLE kill people!!


(A gun is merely one of MANY tools/methods that a person could use to kill someone.   DUH!!!)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 17, 15, 11:47:15:PM
 
a ban on certain weapons, you stupid ass clown, is not the same as a complete ban on all weapons.  even Reagan was on board for the assault weapons ban, and helped get it passed in 1994.
A ban  is a ban child!

Reagan as did all republicans found the law failed to prevent a single crime or save a single life!

The evidence is all around you but you continue to ignore it!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 18, 15, 10:59:32:AM
wmdn_bs: Hawks, what exactly is illogical about that slogan,other than you don't like it?


Here's what's exactly wrong with NRA's "guns don't kill, people kill" bumper sticker slogan, wmdn_bs.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do

 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 18, 15, 11:48:49:AM
According to the article we should ban hammers, because they are the proximate causation of deaths by hammer blows, and cars because they are the proximate causation of deaths caused by vehicles colliding with other vehicles or pedestrians. That argument can be used for nay mode of deaths other than by natural causes.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 18, 15, 01:11:11:PM
How would someone choose ONE item that could kill someone and ban it while leaving the hundreds of other items in place? ? ? ? ? ?

Isn't that the DEFINITION of Selective Enforcement? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Again, it's NOT about GUN CONTROL at all.  It's about Govt having PEOPLE CONTROL!!!!!!!    DUH!!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 18, 15, 02:40:18:PM
PEOPLE kill PEOPLE.  The methods differ and there are MANY methods.  A firearm is merely one of them.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 18, 15, 02:48:42:PM
Blaming everything but the person committing the crime is a favorite pastime of liberals!

Two men high on meth rape and murder a family are judged by liberals not to be at fault as it was the fault of the meth!

A woman drowns her five kids in a bath tub and she is judged by liberals not to be at fault as the fault rested with her husband for making her have so many children!

According to liberals no criminal in prison save for the "anti-Muslim video" producer is guilty of anything!

All their crimes are the fault of guns, other inanimate objects, drugs and alcohol!

Liberals believe if we just banned all the tools of crime, crime will cease to exist!

The fools!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 19, 15, 06:44:14:AM
What dumbass gun nut arguments.  It is obvious to those of us with measurable IQs-  We have more guns in our society than other modern countries and the most lax gun laws.  We are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other modern countries.  We have 20 kids per day being treated for gun shot wounds.  Our police are shot more often on duty, and they shoot way more people while on duty than those from similar countries.  And you idiots are talking about bath tubs and other irrelevant bullshit that just proves how stupid and gullible you are?  Face the facts, damn it.  Act like you at least finished junior high and can use logic and reason to address a problem. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 19, 15, 07:17:58:AM
You've convinced me. My families guns must all be defective. None have killed or injured anyone. So I am going to buy my wife and daughter a new gun each for winter festivus. I'll wait until after the holiday to get myself a new rifle. I'll be sure to ask the dealer to provide guns that will kill surely people this time.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 19, 15, 07:42:14:AM
You are being stupid on purpose...I guess.  Do you know what statistics mean, much?  If one out of every 3 kids in this country have asthma, and you have 3 kids, do you think it means one of your kids must have asthma, even if they have no symptoms? Like I said, even well meaning, non-loony tune, non right wing bozo gun lovers should at least face the facts- we are a gun nutty society compared to our peers and we pay a big price for it.  We are not safer due to our gun saturation, we are less safe.  We are not any more free, not any more unlikely to be invaded by own government, no more likely to not ever have our homes burglarized.  We are just 20 times more likely to die of gun violence, and 20 American kids per day or being treated for gun shot wounds, and I bet that is at least 10 times more than anywhere else.  You are being stupid and ignorant and nobody knows why. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 19, 15, 10:27:26:AM
Though statistics prove time and again that disarming a free people leads to more violent crime and the potential for mass government democide (http://www.shtfplan.com/alex-jones/democide-government-killed-over-260-million-in-the-20th-century-poised-to-kill-billions-more-in-the-21st_03162012), it hasn’t stopped President Barrack Obama and his Congressional entourage from doing everything in their power to make it more difficult for Americans to legally own firearms.

Citing the Sandy Hook mass shooting last year, democrats on the hill have claimed that we must restrict gun ownership and strip the Second Amendment for the safety of our children and the general public.

But a new report commissioned by the White House titled Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-related Violence (http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18319) suggests what many self defense gun proponents have been saying for years. The report, ordered under one of President Obama’s 23 Executive Orders (http://www.infowars.com/obamas-23-executive-orders-on-gun-control-doctors-become-snitches-gun-ownership-is-a-disease-and-more/) signed in the wake of the Sandy Hook incident, asked the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the National Research Council and other federal agencies to identify the “most pressing problems in firearms violence.”

To the surprise of the authors and those who would no doubt have used the report to further restrict access to personal defense firearms, the study found that gun ownership actually saves lives.


Full Study available at the National Academy of Sciences (http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18319)

The President commissioned this study in the hopes of finding a reason to take more guns from law abiding Americans.

What it found, however, is that the answer to gun violence in America is… arming more Americans.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/white-house-study-finds-guns-save-lives-consistently-lower-injury-rates-among-gun-using-crime-victims_06272013 (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/white-house-study-finds-guns-save-lives-consistently-lower-injury-rates-among-gun-using-crime-victims_06272013)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 19, 15, 10:33:42:AM
What you just posted is an obvious lie, you stupid bitch!!  what part of that somehow escapes that pea brain rolling around inside that otherwise empty jelly head?  WE HAVE THE MOST GUNS PER CAPITA, WE HAVE THE MOST GUN DEATHS PER CAPITA, WE HAVE THE HIGHEST HOMICIDE RATES PER CAPITA, OF ALL MODERN COUNTRIES....IF WHAT YOU SAID WAS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING TRUE, WE WOULD STILL HAVE THE MOST GUNS PER CAPITA, BUT THE LOWEST GUN DEATH RATE AND THE LOWEST HOMICIDE RATE, INSTEAD OF THE HIGHEST.  HOW CAN YOU KEEP SPEWING SUCH OBVIOUS LIES, EXCEPT BECAUSE OF HOW STUPID AND GULLIBLE YOU ARE?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 19, 15, 10:35:17:AM
Full Study available at the National Academy of Sciences (http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18319)

You lose again, hooty.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 19, 15, 11:23:07:AM
You are a lying bitch, boy.  why do you think this entity has anything to do with the CDC report which only said there was a lot of conflicting reports and more research was NEEDED TO EVEN HAVE A REASONABLE CONCLUSION, THAT THE NRA HAS TOLD THEIR GOP STOOGES TO NOT FUND, STUPID ASS.  What slow witted fools like you have so much trouble with, along with remembering how to tie your shoes, is that it is freaking hard to come up with a pure study on the effect of gun laws if you only look at gun laws in this country and the results in this country.  Every city has slightly different laws, every state does, and most people have easy access to other cities and other states.  The best way to compare gun laws is by country, by similar countries, because then the gun laws are more consistent on a nationwide level and make the comparisons more accurate.  Duh.  And using this only reliable way of comparing gun laws, THIS COUNTRY, WITH THE HIGHEST RATE OF GUN OWNERSHIP, WITH THE MOST DUMBASS, LENIENT GUN LAWS, HAVE TO FACE THIS FACT- PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY ARE 20 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE OF GUN VIOLENCE THAN THOSE OF OTHER MODERN COUNTRIES.  WE HAVE 20 MINORS A DAY, EVERY DAY, TREATED FOR GUNSHOT WOUNDS, AND WE HAVE MORE POLICE SHOT EACH YEAR AND THE POLICE SHOOT WAY MORE EACH YEAR IN THIS GUN SATURATED COUNTRY.  PERIOD.  DUMBASS. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 19, 15, 12:44:33:PM
Taking guns away from Negroes would remove 90 percent of gun violence.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 19, 15, 03:47:45:PM
then start taking them away, bitch.  you got the talking part over with. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 19, 15, 04:00:39:PM
Democrats did that in the old racist South!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 21, 15, 01:22:12:PM
wmdn_bs: According to the article we should ban hammers, because they are the proximate causation of deaths by hammer blows, and cars because they are the proximate causation of deaths caused by vehicles colliding with other vehicles or pedestrians. That argument can be used for nay mode of deaths other than by natural causes.

wmdn_bs,

Before I point out the defect in your fallacious argument I ask that you to clarify the following nonsensical sentence:

"That argument can be used for nay[?]mode of deaths other than by natural causes."

What do you mean by a "nay" mode of death? More to the point, why did you use "mode" in the first place?

You wrote," The argument can be used for nay[sic] mode of deaths other than by natural causes." Your sentence should've been written as follows and it would had made more sense:

"That argument can be used for nay[sic] cause of death other than by natural cause of death."

And now, wmdn_bs, all that's needed is for you to define a "nay" and then I'll present my rebuttal--along with my refutation, of course.



 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 02:15:56:PM
1965hawks is making less sense than usual!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 21, 15, 02:28:34:PM
Hawks, if all you have is word parsing and typo criticism, you've already conceded.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 21, 15, 02:29:50:PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpyfSzRFs_MJ47T-TOAU6lvG5i3kY4fKaUdVqQ5SbIqkUUXiwAmA) (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmoroncdn.infofuelproducti.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fnosexattack-mug-georgia.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moron.com%2Fgeorgia-woman-attacks-boyfriend-for-refusing-sex%2F&docid=7eHTfggM0F7nzM&tbnid=0LMg8dfJj_upcM%3A&w=640&h=330&ved=0ahUKEwjh8YXt1u3JAhXMwiYKHQ-6CFwQxiAIAg&iact=c&ictx=1)

1965hawks is making less sense than usual[.]


D2D, don't try to blame me for your stupidity and ignorance. Apparently, rational thought has always been incomprehensible to your dumb ass.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 02:31:10:PM
1965hawks does fancy himself the board's official spelling policeman!

He bought his own plastic whistle, badge, red pen and dictionary!

He feels he is the supreme apparatchik!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 02:32:00:PM
 
(http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpyfSzRFs_MJ47T-TOAU6lvG5i3kY4fKaUdVqQ5SbIqkUUXiwAmA) (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmoroncdn.infofuelproducti.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fnosexattack-mug-georgia.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moron.com%2Fgeorgia-woman-attacks-boyfriend-for-refusing-sex%2F&docid=7eHTfggM0F7nzM&tbnid=0LMg8dfJj_upcM%3A&w=640&h=330&ved=0ahUKEwjh8YXt1u3JAhXMwiYKHQ-6CFwQxiAIAg&iact=c&ictx=1)

1965hawks is making less sense than usual[.]


D2D, don't try to blame me for your stupidity and ignorance. Apparently, rational thought has always been incomprehensible to your dumb ass.
Childish name calling is all you have, 1965hawks!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 21, 15, 03:00:54:PM
wmdn_bs: Hawks, if all you have is word parsing and typo criticism,....


wmdn_bs,
So are you saying now that nay was a typographical error? OK. So what word did you intend to type?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 03:03:39:PM
1965hawks does fancy himself the board's official spelling policeman!

He bought his own plastic whistle, badge, red pen and dictionary!

He feels he is the supreme apparatchik!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 21, 15, 03:17:14:PM
wmdn_bs: Hawks, if all you have is word parsing and typo criticism, you've already conceded.

Stop hiding behind D2D's inane posts.  Come out and defend your argument, first by stating exactly what you meant by the use of nay. Was it or was it not a typo. if so, what was th intended word?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 03:23:45:PM
1965hawks does fancy himself the board's official spelling policeman!

He bought his own plastic whistle, badge, red pen and dictionary!

He feels he is the supreme apparatchik!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 21, 15, 03:53:22:PM
wmdn_bs: You've convinced me. My families [sic] guns must all be defective. None have killed or injured anyone.


Your logical fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule--a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is presented as evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has the following form:

1. X, which is some form of ridicule or mockery is presented (typically directed at the claim).

2. Therefore, claim C is false.

This line of reasoning is fallacious because simply mocking a claim does not provide evidence to show that it is false.

In other words, wmdn_bs, despite your ridiculous argument that your family's firearms must be defective because they've never killed or injured anyone, the fact remains that guns do indeed kill and cause injury. Isn't that right, wmdn_bs?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 03:56:25:PM
1965hawks does fancy himself the board's official spelling policeman!

He bought his own plastic whistle, badge, red pen and dictionary!

He feels he is the supreme apparatchik!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 21, 15, 04:19:10:PM
wmdn_bs: Hawks, if all you have is word parsing and typo criticism,....


wmdn_bs,
So are you saying now that nay was a typographical error? OK. So what word did you intend to type?


I'm surprised that a genius like you couldn't jumble the letters and come up with ANY reasonable substitute.

wmdn_bs: You've convinced me. My families [sic] guns must all be defective. None have killed or injured anyone.


Your logical fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule--a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is presented as evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has the following form:

1. X, which is some form of ridicule or mockery is presented (typically directed at the claim).

2. Therefore, claim C is false.

This line of reasoning is fallacious because simply mocking a claim does not provide evidence to show that it is false.

In other words, wmdn_bs, despite your ridiculous argument that your family's firearms must be defective because they've never killed or injured anyone, the fact remains that guns do indeed kill and cause injury. Isn't that right, wmdn_bs?

Not ridicule, but sarcasm. Again, a person with your obvious superior intellect, (or at least obvious to you), should have been able to detect that.

The FACT remains the second amendment is a constitutionally protected RIGHT that shall not be abridged. Enough said.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 21, 15, 04:30:40:PM
bullshit, sonny.  you are for abridging it.  should shoulder fired ground to air missiles be legal to own and purchase, including at most gun shows where no ID is needed to buy as many as you might want, as assault weapons today are?  Are you in favor of people being able to carry their assault weapons onto passenger jets?  into jail visitation areas?  into courtrooms where their relatives might being sentenced? how about tanks and fully automatic machine guns and nuclear weapons that are also "arms," since the Amendment clearly refers to the right to own and bear "arms," and arms are all weapons that might be used in war.  how about carrying assault weapons into grade schools or universities or NAACP headquarters or NRA headquarters or to just mill around in Planned Parenthood clinics or the campaign offices of Clinton or Sanders or even Trump?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 21, 15, 04:43:16:PM
We have a right to free speech too, one that you abuse quite regularly, but there are limits to that as well. See what happens if you yell fire in a crowded movie theater. There are reasonable limits. what you consider an assault rifle is no more or less dangerous than a Remington Model 700 BDL, and has just as many sporting uses.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 04:44:56:PM
 
bullshit, sonny.  you are for abridging it.  should shoulder fired ground to air missiles be legal to own and purchase, including at most gun shows where no ID is needed to buy as many as you might want, as assault weapons today are? 
That is a flat out lie!

If you can afford the hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to purchase a ground to air missile why can't you?

You lying skunk in no gun show can you purchase a firearm without an ID!

Damned liar!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 21, 15, 04:51:48:PM
how do I abuse freedom of speech?  by using it?  you abuse it by lying about something so goddamn simple even a right winger laughs at how stupid you are-  that an assault weapon that can quickly accept 30 round clips, be reloaded quickly and keep firing so many rounds in so few overall seconds is not that much more effective at killing as many people as possible in a small radius as any weapon that cannot accept high capacity clips.  dumbass.


The Remington 700 BDL is a Bolt Action rifle that shoots .30-06 Springfield ammunition. With a maximum capacity of 4 rounds, the Remington 700 BDL holds an average amount compared to other rifles of the same caliber.

at most gun shows you can buy guns without showing ID, lying dvd.  watch your lying mouth, boy. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 04:56:07:PM
Scott in any of the mass shooting you decry if the shooter had used a Remington 700 he would have killed more people!

It is not the weapon but the skills of the person that handles it!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 21, 15, 05:07:34:PM
anybody can shoot 20 kids in a classroom in a matter of moments with an assault weapon and 30 round high capacity clips, and their teachers, who could have rushed him if he only had 4 rounds and used them up, you goddamn piece of shit bitch.  shut up.  you are too fucking stupid to comment. 

LOOK AT THE LOON WHO ACTUALLY DID IT. PROBABLY EVEN A BIGGER WIMP AND LOSER THAN YOU. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 05:33:48:PM
Scott in any of the mass shooting you decry if the shooter had used a Remington 700 he would have killed more people!

It is not the weapon but the skills of the person that handles it!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 21, 15, 06:44:02:PM
wmdn_bs: I'm surprised that a genius like you couldn't jumble the letters and come up with ANY reasonable substitute.

No, wmdn_bs. I would never do that (even though I realised from the very start that you misspelled any). But unlike your dimwitted attack dog D2D, I don't put words in my opponents mouths and don't attack straw men. When I spot an ambiguity in their fallacious arguments I make them tell me exactly what they mean before I respond. I don't take anything for granted. And by doing that, I avoid commiting the same fallacy of argument that my opponents in this forum are wont to do--"refuting" claims their opponent never made. (Thus, despite D2D's continuous--and asinine--demand, I'm not obligated to explain how a gun kills someone on it's own volition, since I never made that ridiculous claim.) 

After several requests for your clarification, you've finally admitted that nay should had been any, So now let's turn to your argument. You wrote:

"According to the article, we should ban hammers because they are  the proximate causation of deaths caused by hammer blows, and [we should] ban cars because they are the proximate cause of deaths caused by vehicles colliding with other vehicles or pedestrians."

To put it bluntly, wmdn_bs, you're lying.

Instead of your saying, "according to the article," you should had said, "according to wmdn_bs." Yes. Dr. Johnson's blog mentions ultimate, intermediate, and proximate causes , but, in the third sentence of the blog's second paragraph, Dr. Johnson, wrote, "First, I'm not going to argue for or against gun regulations." That means his essay doesn't advocate banning guns. So your alluding to Dr. Johnson's article and then babbling about banning hammers and motor vehicles is your fallacious argument and not the logical argument presented in Dr. Johnson's article. In fact, what you attributed to r. Johnson is nothing more than the trite argument you gun nuts trot out when you attempt to justify your illogical opposition to gun control and gun-control regulations--you start babbling about banning guns. But your babbling about banning guns has absolutely nothing to do with the NRA's illogical bumper sticker slogan that makes the preposterous claim that guns don't kill(!) and then attempts to refocus a firearms lethality onto human beings(!) Quoting what Dr. Johnson actually said, "So clearly the argument under consideration, and any other argument that merely points out that  guns are proximate causes (e.g., 'stop blaming the guns and start blaming the person') is fallacious.

So, wmdn_bs. According to what Dr. Johnson actually said, the NRA's silly slogan--"Guns don't kill, people kill"--is nothing more than an illogical attempt to argue against gun control using a fallacious argument.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do




 

 

 


 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 06:55:00:PM
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 21, 15, 07:25:18:PM
(https://coxrare.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/parrot.jpg) (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjH97i-me7JAhVC5SYKHYaOA3UQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Frare.us%2Fstory%2Fa-parrot-in-india-helped-solve-a-familys-murder%2F&psig=AFQjCNFzfz7tMw5E7IvZh2UdFuT_k5_QEQ&ust=1450830104937393)

1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!


1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!

But D2D continues to prove she's a shit-for-brains moron.

HAHAHAHAHAHA


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 21, 15, 07:47:25:PM
The firearm was invented in China in the 13th Century AD.  That would be about 800 years ago.

And YET, there has NEVER been ANY record of a firearm killing a person!!!!!!!!!

To date, the only time a firearm has killed someone, it has been when a human aimed the firearm at another person and caused it to fire a projectile.

Therefore, there is NO proof a gun EVER killed anyone, period!!!!!   DUH!!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_firearm


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 21, 15, 07:50:55:PM
Insert Quote (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=218758.96;num_replies=100#top)
                           
1965hawks still hasn't provided proof a gun has ever killed anyone of its own volition!
1965hawks will never answer the question because 1965hawks cannot bear the truth of that answer!

So instead he responds childishly!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 21, 15, 08:03:59:PM
A Lib/Dem/Fag/Leftist like 69Hocker has no logical/sensible response for the fact that a firearm has never picked itself up and killed anyone.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 22, 15, 07:38:06:AM
lying dvd loon drooled:

Scott in any of the mass shooting you decry if the shooter had used a Remington 700 he would have killed more people!

It is not the weapon but the skills of the person that handles it!





Only someone with the IQ of a rather mature cucumber could believe an assault weapon that can quickly accept 30 round clips, be reloaded quickly and keep firing so many rounds in so few overall seconds is not that much more effective at killing as many people as possible in a small radius as any weapon that cannot accept high capacity clips.  dumbass.

The Remington 700 BDL is a Bolt Action rifle that shoots .30-06 Springfield ammunition. With a maximum capacity of 4 rounds, the Remington 700 BDL holds an average amount compared to other rifles of the same caliber.

at most gun shows you can buy guns without showing ID, lying dvd.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 22, 15, 08:02:27:AM
Though statistics prove time and again that disarming a free people leads to more violent crime and the potential for mass government democide (http://www.shtfplan.com/alex-jones/democide-government-killed-over-260-million-in-the-20th-century-poised-to-kill-billions-more-in-the-21st_03162012), it hasn’t stopped President Barrack Obama and his Congressional entourage from doing everything in their power to make it more difficult for Americans to legally own firearms.

Citing the Sandy Hook mass shooting last year, democrats on the hill have claimed that we must restrict gun ownership and strip the Second Amendment for the safety of our children and the general public.

But a new report commissioned by the White House titled Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-related Violence (http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18319) suggests what many self defense gun proponents have been saying for years. The report, ordered under one of President Obama’s 23 Executive Orders (http://www.infowars.com/obamas-23-executive-orders-on-gun-control-doctors-become-snitches-gun-ownership-is-a-disease-and-more/) signed in the wake of the Sandy Hook incident, asked the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the National Research Council and other federal agencies to identify the “most pressing problems in firearms violence.”

To the surprise of the authors and those who would no doubt have used the report to further restrict access to personal defense firearms, the study found that gun ownership actually saves lives.


Full Study available at the National Academy of Sciences (http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18319)

The President commissioned this study in the hopes of finding a reason to take more guns from law abiding Americans.

What it found, however, is that the answer to gun violence in America is… arming more Americans.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/white-house-study-finds-guns-save-lives-consistently-lower-injury-rates-among-gun-using-crime-victims_06272013 (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/white-house-study-finds-guns-save-lives-consistently-lower-injury-rates-among-gun-using-crime-victims_06272013)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 22, 15, 11:59:24:AM
Scott in any of the mass shooting you decry if the shooter had used a Remington 700 he would have killed more people!

It is not the weapon but the skills of the person that handles it!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 22, 15, 01:49:10:PM
D2D: It is not the weapon but the skills of the person that handles it.

D2D,

Your logical fallacy: Tautology (From the Greek, meaning the same word/idea, redundant)--repeating the same debunked argument using  different words.


All you've done here is use new words to restate the NRA's illogical bumper sticker slogan: guns don't kill, people kill.

"So clearly the argument under consideration [guns don't kill, people kill], and any other argument that merely points out that guns are proximate causes (e.g., 'stop blaming the guns and start blaming the person') is fallacious."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do
 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 22, 15, 01:59:05:PM
1965hawks you have never debunked anything I posted!

All you do is respond with nonsense and childish name calling!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 22, 15, 02:15:36:PM
1965hawks,


You have never debunked anything I posted. All you do is respond with nonsense and childish name calling.

What's wrong, D2D, don't know the meaning of all the "big words" in Dr. Johnson's article?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do

LOL

Take a seat and shut the fuck up, you ignorant ass clown.

HAHAHA


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 22, 15, 02:30:48:PM
Your little piece is merely the opinion of one delusional psychologist. It means nothing when it goes against the Constitution of the United States.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 22, 15, 03:03:50:PM
Keep on dreaming racist!

You have debunked nothing but your own claims!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 22, 15, 03:28:58:PM
wmdn_bs: Your little piece is merely the opinion of one delusional psychologist.

wmdn_bs,

Since you can't refute Dr. Johnson's professional opinion, you attacked him personally insted.

Your logical fallacy: Ad Hominem (From the Latin, "against the man," "against the person")--You attacked the person making the argument rather than attacking the argument itself.

It means nothing when it goes against the Constitution of the United States.

You're confused again, wmdn_bs. When did the NRA's illogical, bumper sticker slogan become a constitutional issue?

LOL


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 22, 15, 03:41:36:PM
1965hawks, the board's worst ad hominem attacker, accuses others of doing the same!

The filthy hypocrite!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 22, 15, 03:45:30:PM
I'm not at all confused. It is easy to see through your arguments straight through to your agenda, which is to dilute if not eliminate the Second Amendment and further limit my rights under the Constitution of the United States. Ain't gonna happen without a fight bro.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 22, 15, 04:17:09:PM
So, the Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists say, "It's GUNS that kill!!!".  It's NOT the people USING the guns, it's the ACTUAL GUNS THEMSELVES!   WHAT? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Knives KILL!!!

Poisons KILL!!!

Cars KILL!!!

Ropes KILL!!!

Fists KILL!!!

Arson fires KILL!!!

Hammers KILL!!!

Acids KILL!!!

Baseball bats KILL!!!

Bricks KILL!!!

Dogs KILL!!!

Drugs KILL!!!

Electrocutions KILL!!!

Why do Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists single out GUNS (ONLY!!) as things that KILL? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  Yet, GUN OWNERSHIP by Law-Abiding Citizens is GUARANTEED by the
   CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES!!!!!

NONE of the other things above that KILL are guaranteed by the US CONSTITUTION!!!!!  But, Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists are totally OK with people owning them.

It makes NO SENSE!  If people's SAFETY is the PRIME CONCERN for the WAR ON GUNS, WHY isn't there a war on anything/everything that a person can use to KILL? ? ? ? ? ?

ANSWER:  It's NOT about GUNS at all.  It's about controlling and subjugating the PEOPLE!!!  A Govt cannot take total control of its people if they HAVE GUNS!!!!!


Govt CONTROL is the REAL REASON!!!!!  Know it & believe it!!!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 22, 15, 04:25:07:PM
WW10VMHZ, I am a liberal, and a Democrat, and yes I support ownership of all those things, and gun ownership as well. You are as bad as scott_free and hawks when you try to lump all liberals in one basket. I am an individual, quite capable of independent thought. Much the same as most liberals I know. Believe it or not, there are right wingers who are in favor of increased gun control. I personally know several. It is quite Hitleresque to pigeon hole entire political/ethnic/religious groups of people based on the words or actions of a few.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 22, 15, 04:25:59:PM
wmdn_bs: I'm not at all confused. It is easy to see through your arguments straight through to your agenda, which is to dilute if not eliminate the Second Amendment and further limit my rights under the Constitution of the United States. Ain't gonna happen without a fight bro.

Evidently, you're hopelessly confused, wmdn_bs. You're babbling about my "agenda" and "diluting" and "eliminating" the Second Amendment, and "limiting" your "constitutional rights." How can you make those claims when I've only discussed the NRA's illogical bumper sticker slogan that attempts to transfer the intrinsic lethality of guns to humans?

Truth is, what you're so desperately trying to do here is change the subject. That's why you trotted all your favourite NRA talking points and catchphrases. But, of course, I'm way to smart to be distracted by your thinly disguised red herrings. You're hoping that I'll take the bait and go off on an irrelevant, wild goose chase, or perhaps get confused or lost in a smokescreen you'll blow out your ass. aren't you, wmd_bs?  But you should know me better than that by now. Needless to say, that ain't gonna happen, little moron.

HAHA


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 22, 15, 04:30:02:PM
guns have only one purpose

that is to kill


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 22, 15, 06:19:01:PM
You're hoping that I'll take the bait and go off on an irrelevant, wild goose chase, or perhaps get confused or lost in a smokescreen you'll blow out your ass. aren't you, wmd_bs?  But you should know me better than that by now. Needless to say, that ain't gonna happen, little moron.



You already have.


guns have only one purpose

that is to kill

Yep, so? You aren't going to change the Constitution, so you may as well relax and get Happy.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 22, 15, 07:03:30:PM
 
guns have only one purpose

that is to kill

Wrong!

Guns are nothing more than safety tools!

Do you drive without wearing a seat belt?

Do you operate power tools without wearing hearing and eye protection?

Do you pull food out of a 400 degree oven with your bare hands?

If you do, you are an idiot!

Guns are protection against violent criminals liberals insist must be out in society!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 23, 15, 04:04:32:PM
D2D: Wrong!Guns are nothing more than safety tools!Do you drive without wearing a seat belt?Do you operate power tools without wearing hearing and eye protection? Do you pull food out of a 400 degree oven with your bare hands? If you do, you are an idiot!

Guns are protection against violent criminals liberals insist must be out in society.

D2D,

How can that be?  How can guns used for protection? Guns are incapable of killing, according to you, wmdn-bs, WWV10MHZ, and the NRA. Remember?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 23, 15, 04:18:33:PM
D2D: Wrong!Guns are nothing more than safety tools!Do you drive without wearing a seat belt?Do you operate power tools without wearing hearing and eye protection? Do you pull food out of a 400 degree oven with your bare hands? If you do, you are an idiot!

Guns are protection against violent criminals liberals insist must be out in society

D2D,

How can that be?  How can guns used for protection? Guns are incapable of killing, according to you, wmdn-bs, WWV10MHZ, and the NRA. Remember?

Guns are used as a tool for protection, but it is still a person operating it. If the tool is use to kill someone, then the person did the killing.

If during the commission of a crime, a victim is shot and killed. Is the person who did the shooting charged and tried, or the gun? Case closed.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 23, 15, 04:40:23:PM
wmdn-bs: Guns are used as a tool for protection, but it is blah blah blah blah blah....

wmdn_bs,

True or False: Guns don't kill.

If during the commission of a crime, a victim is shot and killed. Is the person who did the shooting charged and tried, or the gun?

wmdn_bs,

When a person is shot dead. What does the death certificate list as the cause of death--the shooter or the fatal wound inflicted by the firearm?

A person accused of shooting a person dead is charged and tried for committing a murder. The instrument the accused used (or allegedly used) to commit the murder is called the murder weapon; and, of course, murder weapons are never tried and convicted of murder. Are they, wmdn_bs? That would be ridiculous. Wouldn't it, wmdn_bs? And since you know that murder weapons are never charged and  tried for murder, your asking me if a gun is charged and tried for murder was incredibly stupid. Isn't that right, wmdn_bs?   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 23, 15, 10:25:47:PM
Guns are nothing more than safety tools!

Do you drive without wearing a seat belt?

Do you operate power tools without wearing hearing and eye protection?

Do you pull food out of a 400 degree oven with your bare hands?

If you do, you are an idiot!

Guns are protection against violent criminals liberals insist must be out in society!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 24, 15, 07:53:25:AM


A person accused of shooting a person dead is charged and tried for committing a murder. The instrument the accused used (or allegedly used) to commit the murder is called the murder weapon; and, of course, murder weapons are never tried and convicted of murder. Are they, wmdn_bs? That would be ridiculous. Wouldn't it, wmdn_bs? And since you know that murder weapons are never charged and  tried for murder, your asking me if a gun is charged and tried for murder was incredibly stupid. Isn't that right, wmdn_bs?    

Thank you for proving my point that guns don't kill, people do. If guns killed, then guns would be charged, tried and imprisoned.

Your incessant blah blah blahing won't change the fact that you couldn't be more wrong. You will not defeat the Constitution of the United States.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Byteryder on 12 24, 15, 08:48:45:AM
Will this thread ever die?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 24, 15, 09:27:20:AM
It will probably live until hawks and others stops the attacks on the Constitution or Jim moves it to hot topics.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 24, 15, 12:40:00:PM
wmdn is so confused he thinks telling the truth about how our country proves that the more guns in society, the less safe everyone in that society is in public, is some sort of an attack on the Constitution!!  Were gun nuts given guns as pacifiers as kids?  What can explain their bizarre, almost sexualized addiction to guns?  Nobody is saying a gun can kill anyone by itself, we are just noting the obvious- a 10 year old kid with a gun in a public place is more dangerous to anyone near him than an out of control Mike Tyson, unarmed, would be.  It is a tool, used by punks, cowards, morons, hate filled losers and criminals to intimidate, injure or kill others.  The rate of guns being used in public for these reasons are at least 500 times higher than any private citizen using a gun in public to stop these incidences of guns being used for crime.  We need less guns in public, not more.  We need assault weapons and high capacity clips banned.  We need universal background checks.  And by God, we are going to have it.  Fuck the NRA and fuck everyone who refuses to accept the truth about what a gun nutty society we have become and thinks the answer to too many guns in public is MORE GUNS. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 24, 15, 12:42:55:PM
wmdn-bs   3

Hawk - 0


(http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/hattip.gif)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 24, 15, 02:09:26:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times – more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 24, 15, 02:22:14:PM
wmdn is so confused he thinks telling the truth about how our country proves that the more guns in society, the less safe everyone in that society is in public, is some sort of an attack on the Constitution!!  Were gun nuts given guns as pacifiers as kids?  What can explain their bizarre, almost sexualized addiction to guns?  Nobody is saying a gun can kill anyone by itself, we are just noting the obvious- a 10 year old kid with a gun in a public place is more dangerous to anyone near him than an out of control Mike Tyson, unarmed, would be.  It is a tool, used by punks, cowards, morons, hate filled losers and criminals to intimidate, injure or kill others.  The rate of guns being used in public for these reasons are at least 500 times higher than any private citizen using a gun in public to stop these incidences of guns being used for crime.  We need less guns in public, not more.  We need assault weapons and high capacity clips banned.  We need universal background checks.  And by God, we are going to have it.  Fuck the NRA and fuck everyone who refuses to accept the truth about what a gun nutty society we have become and thinks the answer to too many guns in public is MORE GUNS. 

Your argument makes perfect sense until you're the one that needs a gun and don't have one. I've never needed one in nearly 65 years of walking around on this rock, and hope I never do. Just like keeping a spare tire in your car. You hope you never need it, but it's a good idea to have one, just in case.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 24, 15, 05:44:45:PM
Not anything like that.  Try to be logical.  If more guns in public meant less homicides and especially less gun deaths then this country WOULD BE THE SAFEST OF ALL THE MODERN COUNTRIES, NOT THE LEAST SAFE.....what part of that do you not understand?  This is a true fact- Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than a citizen of any other country.  and this- there are 20 kids a day in this country treated for gunshot wounds.  And your solution is more guns, especially in public?  You have read the incredibly racist, sexist, anti-foreigner, anti-gay, anti-liberal, anti-muslim shit posted here by goons who are also the ones most fervently addicted to their guns and so pathetically chickenshit to even go out in public without their gun.  Would you want to be anywhere near these armed loons with your family nearby in a public place?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 25, 15, 02:13:36:AM
Except liberal cities ban guns and so thoroughly limit their uses as to make them pointless for the law abiding but criminals are unaffected resulting in high crime rates in liberal run cities!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 25, 15, 05:29:33:AM
Your statement would be correct if you left out the word liberal.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Houston-Texas.html

Crime is higher in all large metro areas than in their rural counterparts regardless of local governance.

Why don't you know that.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 25, 15, 06:56:57:AM
dvd is a retarded parrot.  repeating the same right wing lies over and over.  as far as I know, all city total gun bans have been overturned by the supreme court or other superior court rulings, have been for some time, and dvd keeps spewing it like it a decade or so ago. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 25, 15, 07:27:24:AM
It really is more related to population density with all the stresses, and impoverished neighborhoods than it is to who is governing.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 25, 15, 04:25:33:PM
Don't forget crime statistics label justifiable homicide (self defense) as crime!

Poverty is no more an incentive to crime than greed is!

What truly causes crime is the victim mentality that pervades the poverty stricken communities!

The belief that being educated is akin to being white!

The belief that getting good grades is akin to being a suck up to the successful!

Stripping people of their rights to self defense only makes criminals stronger and poverty worse!

Liberal/union run schools fail to educate and poverty becomes multi-generational!

Poverty is not the fault of law abiding gun owners!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 26, 15, 06:55:51:AM
Thank you for your opinion D, though though much of it couldn't be more flawed.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 26, 15, 11:56:32:AM
Remove all gun violence statistics involving Negroes in America and we'd have numbers similar to Switzerland!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 26, 15, 02:54:06:PM
Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

Mark Eisenecker, a sociologist from the University of Zurich told BBC News Online that guns are "anchored" in Swiss society and that gun control is simply not an issue.

Swiss culture has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialized countries like urban deprivation.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Byteryder on 12 26, 15, 03:10:45:PM
Hwy, Jim.  When you going to move this to the Dead Horse board.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 26, 15, 03:14:59:PM
This is a HOT TOPIC.   Please don't move it for a while - at least until it falls off the First Page.

-----------------------------------------------------------

So, regarding Switzerland.....

Have you noticed that the MOO-Slimes are NOT flooding into Switzerland? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

WHY would you suppose that is? ? ? ? ? ? ?

(HINT:  Maybe it's because EVERYONE is a Law-Abiding Gun Owner and trained in the proper use of firearms.)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 26, 15, 03:52:55:PM
 
Thank you for your opinion D, though though much of it couldn't be more flawed.
No opinion but established fact!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 26, 15, 06:37:45:PM
(https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aad43ed688c8e45bd17c289c87edb3c7?convert_to_webp=true)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 26, 15, 06:42:05:PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f4/f4/03/f4f403f01231e11a617159d3b9876ce5.jpg)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 26, 15, 06:43:59:PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61P3zAuLoDL._SX522_.jpg)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 27, 15, 06:48:12:AM
You're half right web10mhz, guns don't kill people.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 27, 15, 07:10:56:AM
people with guns kill people from 10' away, even people much larger, faster, smarter, better than they are.  People who they could never hurt with any other weapon but a gun.  and one loony tune person with an assault weapon and a high capacity clip, who would never even try to take over even a grade school classroom without the fake courage the very lethal assault weapon gave him, can shoot and kill 20 first graders and their teachers to death firing 157 rounds in a five minute attack.  plus all the other mass murders committed by loons with assault weapons.  only chickenshits try to deny assault weapons specifically, and guns generally, are used by people to kill most of the people murdered in this country and the rate would be anywhere near the same if no guns were ever used.  what liars and morons they must be, and dumbass gun defenders.   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 27, 15, 07:31:29:AM
The number of murders in the U.S. in 2011 committed with rifles: 323.

Most are committed with handguns using magazines of 10 bullets or less.

As for rifles, they are used even less than body parts, blunt instruments or sharp objects to commit murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 27, 15, 08:56:16:AM
people with guns kill people from 10' away, even people much larger, faster, smarter, better than they are.  People who they could never hurt with any other weapon but a gun.  and one loony tune person with an assault weapon and a high capacity clip, who would never even try to take over even a grade school classroom without the fake courage the very lethal assault weapon gave him, can shoot and kill 20 first graders and their teachers to death firing 157 rounds in a five minute attack.  plus all the other mass murders committed by loons with assault weapons.  only chickenshits try to deny assault weapons specifically, and guns generally, are used by people to kill most of the people murdered in this country and the rate would be anywhere near the same if no guns were ever used.  what liars and morons they must be, and dumbass gun defenders.   

You are right, a good guy with a gun has a far better chance of stopping, from a distance, a Looney tune intent on major casualties than a smooth talker with a large vocabulary.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 27, 15, 09:19:34:AM
It would be easier to name the number of mass shooters who used an assault weapon over the last year, even though it is a much much much larger list, than to name more than a few specific times any private citizen with a gun used that gun to stop a crime in public over the last 20 years.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 27, 15, 11:13:45:AM
The number of murders in the U.S. in 2011 committed with rifles: 323.

Most are committed with handguns using magazines of 10 bullets or less.

As for all rifles combined, they are used even less than body parts, blunt instruments or sharp objects to commit murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8


Just the facts...


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 27, 15, 12:44:22:PM
Looking at the FBI numbers from 2005 to 2011, the number of murders by hammers and clubs
consistently exceeds the number of murders committed with a rifle.

Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the
number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders
committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and
clubs was 618.

And so the list goes, with the actual numbers changing somewhat from year to year, yet
the fact that more people are killed with blunt objects each year remains constant.

For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders
committed with hammers and clubs.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/01/03/fbi-more-people-killed-with-hammers-and-clubs-each-year-than-with-rifles/

Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by
hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.

The bottom line: A rifle ban is as illogical as it is unconstitutional. We face far greater
danger from individuals armed with carpenters’ tools and a caveman’s stick.

And it seems fairly obvious that if more people had a gun, less people would be inclined
to try to hit them in the head with a hammer.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: takncarabizniz on 12 27, 15, 02:25:30:PM
Time to retire this thread to the extended discussions page...hot topics, whatever it's called...


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 27, 15, 02:31:50:PM
guns have two purposes

1. to kill

and

2. to make right winger men feel like men


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 27, 15, 02:33:44:PM
That was already debunked long ago, Cas.  Keep up.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 27, 15, 06:12:17:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a


MISCELLANEOUS STATISTICS
Number of firearms in America: Between 223,000,000 (527) and 290,000,000 (528)
Number of firearm owning households: At least 50,600,000 (529)
Projected firearm owning households in America: 60-85 million
Number of guns used in crimes: 450,000 (530)
Percentage of guns used in crimes: 0.09%

(527) Guns Used in Crime, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Marianne W. Zawitz, 1995.
(528) Small Arms Survey, Graduate Institute of International Studies, 2008
(529) Surveys show a “reported” ownership rate of 46%, but it is universally believed that these surveys under-reported
    (i.e., people that own firearms don’t want to admit so to a pollster). This is validated by surveys performed by the
    National Opinion Research Center. They perform their surveys face-to-face at the respondent’s home, and routinely
    have reported gun ownership rates 3-6% lower than telephone based surveys.
(530) Ibid.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 27, 15, 06:53:01:PM
Mass Shooting Statistics on Presidential Watches:

Reagan      11 Mass Shootings
Bush 41    12 Mass Shootings
Clinton      23 Mass Shootings
Bush 43    16 Mass Shootings
Obama      162 Mass Shootings

What's wrong with this picture?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 27, 15, 10:09:56:PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0a/15/36/0a1536dd5810f490ba67586403108071.jpg)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 28, 15, 06:41:58:AM
Racist piece of shit bitch WD-40 drooled this bullshit, that other dumbass teabaggers somehow swallowed as the truth:

Mass Shooting Statistics on Presidential Watches:

Reagan    11 Mass Shootings
Bush 41   12 Mass Shootings
Clinton   23 Mass Shootings
Bush 43   16 Mass Shootings
Obama   162 Mass Shootings[/I][/FONT]


Are you teabagger boys so incredibly stupid and gullible you believe this unsourced bullshit?  Doesn't a thought somehow occur deep inside the jelly in your head that these numbers are fucking impossible?  For one thing, the dumbest racist chickenshit on the board, when HK and Hayes are not here, posted it.  For another, it is fucking impossible to have such a wide disparity if the same definition of "mass shootings" is applied for each president.  I know WD-40 is so stupid and gullible he would fall for such bullshit, but you other teabaggers should have at least had enough sense to doubt this bullshit statistic.


People almost never use cars as a weapon.  Only an idiot racist like WD-40 would somehow compare car deaths to people being shot to death by assholes using a gun.  And almost no cars are ever used to force some 7/11 clerk to hand over the cash register dough and a carton of smokes.  You know you are reading the dumbass comments of a racist gun nut when they use a dumbass gun nut cartoon to try to say cars are used by killers to kill other people just like guns are used in 68% of all US murders, 41% of all robberies and 21% of all assaults. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 28, 15, 06:42:55:AM
et, you are wholly unable to refute with any facts and links yourself!

Why is that?

Given you are prone not to link to your sources you haven't a leg to stand on Scott!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 28, 15, 08:14:57:AM
wd-40 used no sources, you idiot.  would you shut up?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 28, 15, 08:21:04:AM
Has someone been inflating mass shooting numbers to fit an agenda????? (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Smileys/sarcasmics/huh.gif)



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/press-distorts-with-inflated-mass-shooting-statistics/article/2577626


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 28, 15, 08:25:30:AM
from the Washington examiner!!  fuck that.  of course the number of mass shootings is directly connected to WHAT THE DEFINITION OF MASS SHOOTINGS IS...DUH.  and of course different sources using different definitions, even if they are attempting to be completely objective, can come up with vastly different numbers of mass shootings!!  who is denying that?  we know why the gun nut pussies at the NRA would want to fudge the data, IT AFFECTS THEIR GODDAMN BOTTOM LINE, AND THE PROFIT MARGIN OF THEIR SUGAR DADDIES- THE GUN MAKERS WITH BLOOD ALL OVER THEIR GODDAMN HANDS.....why would anybody want to be for common sense gun control that would make our gun death rate more comparable to other modern countries and their gun laws EXCEPT to save lives, to make this country safer, to do what is right....THERE SURE AS HELL AIN'T ANY MONEY TO BE MADE IN NOT SELLING ASSAULT WEAPONS OR NOT GIVING PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO FUCK UP PUBLIC SAFETY BY CARRYING THEIR CHICKENSHIT GUNS IN PUBLIC LIKE PUSSIES. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 12 28, 15, 08:30:28:AM
The number of murders in the U.S. in 2011 committed with any type of rifle: 323.

Most are committed with handguns using magazines of 10 bullets or less.

As for rifles, they are used even less than body parts, blunt instruments or sharp objects to commit murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8 (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 28, 15, 09:51:17:AM
from the Washington examiner!!  fuck that.  of course the number of mass shootings is directly connected to WHAT THE DEFINITION OF MASS SHOOTINGS IS...DUH.  and of course different sources using different definitions, even if they are attempting to be completely objective, can come up with vastly different numbers of mass shootings!!  who is denying that?  we know why the gun nut pussies at the NRA would want to fudge the data, IT AFFECTS THEIR GODDAMN BOTTOM LINE, AND THE PROFIT MARGIN OF THEIR SUGAR DADDIES- THE GUN MAKERS WITH BLOOD ALL OVER THEIR GODDAMN HANDS.....why would anybody want to be for common sense gun control that would make our gun death rate more comparable to other modern countries and their gun laws EXCEPT to save lives, to make this country safer, to do what is right....THERE SURE AS HELL AIN'T ANY MONEY TO BE MADE IN NOT SELLING ASSAULT WEAPONS OR NOT GIVING PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO FUCK UP PUBLIC SAFETY BY CARRYING THEIR CHICKENSHIT GUNS IN PUBLIC LIKE PUSSIES. 


So..., it would appear you didn't read it.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Byteryder on 12 28, 15, 10:21:25:AM
WOW.  Ho is on a rant. He always does that whenever some one drops a bomb on his precious Democrats and that Loser Obama in particular.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 28, 15, 11:01:04:AM
the power to kill makes gun toters eager to tote


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 28, 15, 04:00:52:PM
the power to kill makes gun toters eager to tote

The possibility to prevent being killed is incentive to tote.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 28, 15, 04:01:27:PM
scott_free (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2550)Honored Member

Posts: 1758

Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/index.php?topic=218758.msg1784972#msg1784972)« Reply #159 on: Today at 06:41:58 AM »(http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/Themes/Voicebbs/images/english/reply_sm2.gif) (http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=218758.156;num_replies=167)

Racist piece of sXXX bitch WD-40 drooled this bullsXXX, that other dumbass teabaggers somehow swallowed as the truth:

Mass Shooting Statistics on Presidential Watches:

Reagan    11 Mass Shootings
Bush 41   12 Mass Shootings
Clinton   23 Mass Shootings
Bush 43   16 Mass Shootings
Obama   162 Mass Shootings

This link has all the statistics.  Count them up yourself if you are skeptical:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data

The numbers show there are ALWAYS more violent incidents under Dem Presidents!!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 28, 15, 05:51:54:PM
Wow, Mother Jones?

A leftist publication?

That is going to give little Scottie a stroke!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 28, 15, 06:57:10:PM
WWV10MHZ: So the Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists rational people say, "Guns kill," not the people using the guns; it's the actual guns themselves! What?

Yes. That's what right, WWV10MHZ. But the NRA's irrational bumper sticker says "Guns don't kill, people kill." So, in other words, in other words, "Don't blame the gun; blame the person." The NRA's  bogus catchphrase isn't intended to make the ridiculous  assertion that guns don't kill--even the fraudulent NRA won't go so far as to make that preposterous claim! No. Truth is, the NRA's ulterior motive is to make the fallacious argument that laws enacted to regulate the sale and use of guns is a waste of time, based, of course, on the false premiss that "guns don't kill; people kill."

But wait, WWV10MHZ! isn't a gun a weapon? Yes, of course it is!

weapon: an instrument, such as a club, knife or gun, used to injure, defeat or destroy.

More precisely, a gun is construed to be a deadly weapon.

deadly weapon: Any firearm or other device, instrument, material, or substance  that, from the manner in which it is used, is calculated or likely to produce death.

Guns are deadly weapons people use to kill themselves, other people, and animals. In actuality, it's the gun that kills (that causes death), not the person. Isn't that right, WWV10MHZ?

Knives kill; poisons kill; cars kill; ropes kill; fists kill; fire kills; hammers kill; acids kill; baseball bats kill; bricks kill; dogs kill; drugs kill.

But according to the NRA's illogical catchphrase, guns don't kill. So that's why you didn't include them on your list of "killers". Isn't that right, WWV10MHZ?



 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 28, 15, 06:58:38:PM
1965hawks provide quote and link to prove a gun killed someone of its own volition!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 28, 15, 07:12:19:PM
WWV10MHZ: Why do Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists single out only guns as things that kill?  Yet gun ownership by law-abiding citizens is guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States?

Where did shit-for-brains gun fetishists like WWV10MHZ get the absurd notion that guns have been "singled out" to be the only the only things that cause death? And why does WWV10MHZ believe that babbling about the constitutionality of gun ownership will somehow support the preposterous claim that guns are incapable of killing people?

   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 28, 15, 07:16:53:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc

1965hawks, if he got his way, would sacrifice 60 people to possibly save one person!

Tells you where his priorities lay!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 28, 15, 07:33:40:PM
WWV10MHZ: None of the other things listed above that KILL are guaranteed by the US CONSTITUTION.

So what is it that kills and is "guaranteed" by the Constitution, WWV10MHZ?

But, Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists are totally OK with people owning them.

When shit-for-brains WWV10MHZ answers my question, I'll own his ass and then I'll hand it back to him.


It makes no sense!

I agree wholeheartedly, WWV10MHZ. Truth is, every argument you present in this forum is nonsensical--like the ridiculous argument you're presenting here, for example.


If people's peoples' safety is the one of the major concerns of  for the WAR ON GUNS gun con control, then why isn't there a war on anything/everything that a person can use to kill?

WWV10MHZ, explain why you believe gun control is a "war" on guns? Are traffic laws a "war" on motor on motor vehicles?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 28, 15, 07:38:35:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

1965hawks, if he got his way, would sacrifice 60 people to possibly save one person!

Tells you where his priorities lay!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 28, 15, 07:41:21:PM
WWV10MHZ: It's NOT about GUNS at all.  It's about controlling and subjugating the PEOPLE!!!  A Govt cannot take total control of its people if they HAVE GUNS!!!!! [sic]

Sorry, WWV10MHZ. Your anti-government rant doesn't support the absurd argument that would have us believe a gun doesn't kill.

Govt CONTROL is the REAL REASON!!!!!  Know it & believe it!!!! [sic]

Here's what I known and believed for quite some time now, WWV10MHZ: you're a fucking idiot from the far-right's lunatic fringe.

Take a seat and shut the fuck up!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 28, 15, 10:32:52:PM
69Hocker.....
 
GEEEZ!  You're really off-the-hook over this!!!!  Careful you don't have a stroke.  That would be a shame.

Anyway.... The point is that there are MANY ways that people can kill and many things that can be used as the
   weapon of choice.

BUT, you Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists have ONLY chosen firearms to demonize and try to have banned from the
    Law-Abiding Citizens of America who have been GUARANTEED by the US Constitution to own/possess.

WHY are NONE of the dozens of OTHER murder items ignored for banning/control and ONLY firearms targeted? ? ? ? ? ? ?

(HINT:  Because it's REALLY about the Govt being able to have FULL CONTROL of the Citizens who would have NO WAY
   to protect themselves from complete tyranny. It's all part of the SOBama Regime's participation in the Worldwide
   Socialist Agenda to cede our sovereignty to the United Nations as the Head of One World Government!!!!) 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 11:16:42:AM
WWV10MHZ, "No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun," reply #178:


69Hocker 1965hawks,
 
GEEEZ!  You're really off the hook over this!  Careful you don't have a stroke.  That would be a shame.


WWV10MHZ, your feigned concern for my health is nothing more than a thinly disguised distraction--a red herring--that you hope will hide the fact of your incredibly stupid attempt to continue defending the illogical and preposterous claim that guns don't kill. Well, needless to say, it doesn't. Instead of babbling irrelevant crap about the possibility of my having a stroke as a result of debunking your ridiculous argument, what you should be doing is presenting a logical argument that would prove a gun can't cause my death; but, of course, that's something you've yet to do and, truth is, you never will.

Anyway.... Anyway,The my point is that there are MANY many ways that people can kill and many things that can be used as the weapon of choice.

When have I ever disagreed with that line of reasoning, WWV10MHZ?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Jw2 on 12 29, 15, 11:18:37:AM
Despite extensive training, police officers  using guns still hurt innocent people.
The 2012 killing of Rekia Boyd is one example.
Bettie Jones, a 55-year-old mother of five, is the latest to die from a Chicago cop's gun.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 29, 15, 11:36:49:AM
the chart provided by racist gun nut liar wd-40 in reply #159 does not match the lies he spewed when he claimed 162 mass shootings, as defined by some arbitrary method which is neither scientific or universally accepted, but certainly among the many ways you can define a mass shooting, does not show 162 such events during Obama, not even ballpark.  it shows exactly 26 such shootings.  vs. 162.....complete lie.  I admit, the rate of mass shootings AS THEY DEFINED IT, went up during 2012 especially and since, to a lesser degree, but what in the hell does that have to do with Obama?  most psychologists say mass shootings create a lot of copycat shooters who envy the spotlight and fame these desperate loser assholes get for taking out their rage on co-workers and strangers.  Obama is the one trying to get sensible gun control laws passed!!  you know, the assault weapon ban, the weapon of choice in mass shootings, the same ban Reagan lobbied for and helped get passed in 1994.

Under Gomer, 15 such defined shootings. Not 11.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 11:55:35:AM
WWV10MHZ: BUT, you Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists have ONLY chosen firearms to demonize and try to have banned from the Law-Abiding Citizens of America who have been GUARANTEED by the US Constitution to own/possess.

WWV10MHZ, no amount of your puerile name-calling will support your ridiculous argument that would have the rational discussants of this forum believe no one has ever been killed by a firearm. And, furthermore, I see you're still confused. The issue here is the NRA's ridiculous claim that guns don't kill, not banning guns, or whether private ownership of firearms is constitutionally guaranteed.

WHY Why are NONE none of the dozens of OTHER other murder items[?] ignored for banning/control and ONLYonly firearms targeted? ? ? ? ? ? ?

First of all, WWV10MHZ, your assertion is ambiguous; you did not define "murder item." A favourite tactic used by people like you, who present fallacious arguments, is to base their arguments on undefined terms, however, doing that makes their arguments ambiguous and, of course, that makes their arguments meaningless. Furthermore, your argument would have the reader believe that only firearms are regulated in our society. But that's obviously a big lie. Isn't that right, WWV10MHZ?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Jw2 on 12 29, 15, 12:13:45:PM
secondly, what the NRA deluded gun nuts keep overlooking is that the suicide by gun count now exceeds the murder rate.

our society has distraught relatives, friends and neighbors who find using a gun to end their life is their best option.

go ahead ... go to google news and type in murder suicide.  you will find a significant number of sad cases, where dysfunctional gun owners decided that their solution to their problems was to kill someone and then themselves.

these are significant numbers.

the other significant statistic that youse gun lovers insist on ignoring is the greater statistical fact that you are more likely to be injured or killed - by accident or on purpose - in a home that has a gun, than to encounter a criminal with a gun.

but, go ahead, make HK a rich man.  he will have to answer to God when the time comes.

go ahead, become just another statistic, just don't make a member of your family one of those statistics.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 12:44:54:PM
WWV10MHZ: WHY Why are NONE none of the dozens of OTHER other murder items[?] ignored for banning/control and ONLY only firearms targeted? ? ? ? ? ? ?

(HINT:  Because it's REALLY really about the Govt government being able to have FULL CONTROL full control of the [c]itizens who would have NO WAY no way to protect themselves from complete tyranny. It's all part of the SOBama Regime's Obama administration's participation in the Worldwide Socialist Agenda to cede our sovereignty to the United Nations as the [h]ead of One World Government.!!!!)


conspiracy theory: a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.

WWV10MHZ, wacko, conspiracy theories from the far-right's lunatic fringe never cease to amuse and amaze me. And your babbling one here is a laughable attempt to change the subject. But as I'm sure you know by now, I'm not easily distracted by red herrings. I stay focused on the original issue and the original issue here is the NRA's bogus claim that guns don't kill. Your irrelevant prattle about a "worldwide socialist agenda" and a UN-led "one-world government" does not provide evidence to support your ridiculous argument that would have the reader believe a gun--legally defined as a deadly weapon--is incapable of causing death.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 01:07:52:PM
To: wmdn_bs

in re: reply #122

wmdn_bs: If during the commission of a crime, a victim is shot and killed. Is the person who did the shooting charged and tried, or the gun?

wmdn_bs,

True or False: Guns don't kill.

Well, is that statement true or false, wmdn_bs? You never responded. Remember?

When a person is shot dead. What does the death certificate list as the cause of death--the shooter or the fatal wound inflicted by the firearm?

What does the death certificate list as the cause of death, wmdn_bs, the shooter or the mortal wound caused by the gun? You never answered the question. Remember?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 02:40:15:PM
A person accused of shooting a person dead is charged and tried for committing a murder. The instrument the accused used (or allegedly used) to commit the murder is called the murder weapon; and, of course, murder weapons are never tried and convicted of murder. Are they, wmdn_bs? That would be ridiculous. Wouldn't it, wmdn_bs? And since you know that murder weapons are never charged and  tried for murder, your asking me if a gun is charged and tried for murder was incredibly stupid. Isn't that right, wmdn_bs?
___1965hawks, "No One was Ever Killed By A Gun," reply #122.

Thanks for proving my point that guns don't kill people, people do. If guns killed, then guns would be charged, tried or imprisoned.
___wmdn_bs, "No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun," reply #124. 

You're confused again, wmdn_bs. I haven't proved true the NRA's illogical bumper sticker slogan which makes the ridiculous claim that guns don't kill, people do. In actuality, what I did in reply #122 was point out your flawed logic and unsound reasoning--the logical fallacy and fallacy of argument on which your fallacious argument is based. So now let's consider what you posted as rebuttal in reply #124.

Not surprisingly, reply#124 is yet another logical fallacy.

Your logical fallacy: Reductio Ad Absurdum (also known as argumentum ad absurdum)--a common logical fallacy (and fallacy of argument) which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial. In other words, wmdn_bs, you continue to argue that guns don't kill and have continually rejected my claim--that guns do kill--as being false, based on the absurd reason you cited in reply#124.



   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 03:43:04:PM
Guns have only one purpose , that is to defend the lives of yourself or loved ones!
__D2D, "No One Was Ever killed By A Gun," reply #19.

D2D, why would you rely on a gun to defend your life or anyone else's life? Guns are useless for defense; they're harmless. Guns don't kill. Remember?

 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 04:15:23:PM
wmdn_bs: Guns are used for hunting. Guns are use for shooting clays. Guns are use in target shooting. Guns have been used as signaling devices. Guns have many purposes, all of them valid.

wmdn_bs,

You forgot to mention that guns kill people. In fact, in a typical year, guns take the lives of over thirty thousand people in the United States. But, hey! What the fuck! According to the NRA's bumper sticker slogan, guns don't kill. And if the NRA says guns don't kill, then that claim is unequivocally  true. Right, wmdn_bs?

Yeah...right. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 04:25:44:PM
wmdn_bs: Our Second Amendment right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution. Enough said.

But did the Second Amendment say guns don't kill? No that's what the fraudulent organisation calling itself the National Rifle Association (NRA) said. And, apparently, that's what it's dumbed-down stooges believe, despite the absurdity of that claim.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 29, 15, 04:28:36:PM
wmdn_bs: Guns are used for hunting. Guns are use for shooting clays. Guns are use in target shooting. Guns have been used as signaling devices. Guns have many purposes, all of them valid.

wmdn_bs,

You forgot to mention that guns kill people. In fact, in a typical year, guns take the lives of over thirty thousand people in the United States. But, hey! What the fuck! According to the NRA's bumper sticker slogan, guns don't kill. And if the NRA says guns don't kill, then that claim is unequivocally  true. Right, wmdn_bs?

Yeah...right. 

Actually no, you are not correct. I didn't forget to mention that guns kill people. Guns do not kill anyone. They never have and never will. In fact, from the day the first firearm was invented until this very day, a gun has not killed anyone. Many people have been killed by other persons or themselves while using the tool that spits out a projectile, but that is no fault of the firearm itself now is it?

The NRA is correct.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 29, 15, 04:33:00:PM
D2D: But either way[,] sick people (aka liberals) think a gun imparts manhood on a toter[.]

D2D, that's not the issue here. At issue here is the absurd belief--held by you and other gun fetishists (aka gun nuts)--that guns don't kill.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 29, 15, 04:35:15:PM
wmdn_bs: Our Second Amendment right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution. Enough said.

But did the Second Amendment say guns don't kill? No that's what the fraudulent organisation calling itself the National Rifle Association (NRA) said. And, apparently, that's what it's dumbed-down stooges believe, despite the absurdity of that claim.

I don't care what the Second Amendment doesn't say. What's important is what it DOES SAY. Enough said.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 29, 15, 04:37:28:PM
it says militia which you conveniently ignore


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 29, 15, 04:39:51:PM
I don't ignore anything... yet, though some of you anti-constitution types are close. That would be sad, because I agree with you on so many other issues. Describe militia. Keep in mind, it doesn't require government control. My neighbors and I could form a militia if we so desired. You, hawks, scott, and a few others could form a militia of the uninformed and you probably should.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 29, 15, 04:42:34:PM
the second amendment does not say you can get a german shepherd and keep in your house as protection, but you can.  I do not believe the way the amendment is worded that it is talking about anything except your right to own and bear arms is dependent upon the need for a well regulated militia back in those primitive times.  why?because it clearly says so!!  but I still think people have the right to own a gun as long as it is kept in their home, or in their car, and used at a shooting range or for hunting outside of your own property.  just as much as they have a right to own a dog, although that right is not clearly expressed in the Constitution, either. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 29, 15, 04:46:05:PM
But the right to KEEP and BEAR arms is explicitly worded in the Second Amendment. Again, it doesn't say a lot of things. What it doesn't say isn't important. What it does say, is.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 29, 15, 04:52:42:PM
a person no less than alexander hamilton often stated that we needed a permanent

fighting force (like an army) to obviate the need to form a militia every time

we were threatened

that contributor to our constitution said plain as day

we doan need no steenkin' milita if we got an army

and more than one state fought against paying their fair share for the revolution

cas will go with hamilton on this one

militia my left titty


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 29, 15, 06:18:51:PM
cASS-HOLE......

The Federal Military is NOT permitted BY LAW to operate against US Citizens within the US Borders!!!

The Law is known as "The Posse Comitatus Act".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

Therefore, a Militia would be required to operate within the American Borders.  State Army and Air Force National Guards would be examples under the command
    of a State Governor.  However, Militias may be formed by Sheriffs or Chiefs of Police or people deputized by these officials.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 29, 15, 06:26:19:PM
militias are formed by wackos who dream of glory on the battlefiled

nobody in their right mind thinks this way

not a goddam one of them are of any consequence in their daily miserable existance

the male obsession with an erection has much to do with it...made worse with viagra


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 29, 15, 07:00:48:PM
cASS-HOLE is dreaming again about something he had 50 years ago!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 29, 15, 07:00:59:PM
By Scott's and Caserio's definition any street gang could call itself a militia be be able to keep and bear arms!

Read the Second Amendment!

Who is guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms?  The People!

Who is regulated?  The Militia!

Who regulates the Militia?  The People via their right to keep and bear arms!

Why are you so illiterate as to be unable to understand that?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: scott_free on 12 29, 15, 07:06:21:PM
I agree, it is important to read exactly what the second amendment says, so let's post it and check it out:

One version was passed by the Congress.

As passed by the Congress and preserved in the National Archives, with the rest of the original hand-written copy of the Bill of Rights prepared by scribe William Lambert:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, then-Secretary of State:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


The interesting, and most informative, phrase to note is the first phrase concerning how important a well regulated militia is to the security of a free state, or country, in this instance.  As anybody who has taken any law classes or even any insurance classes or even any county clerk researches concerning deeds and property descriptions, what is mentioned FIRST in a clause or deed or description, takes precedence over what comes thereafter.  Obviously, the Constitution is more concerned with having a well regulated militia, as it is necessary to the national security, than it is with the right of the people to keep and bear arms.  If not, it would not have been mentioned first in this amendment, and the secondary phrase concerning an individual right to keep and bear arms would not be dependent upon the first clause- having a well regulated militia.

I believe the Second Amendment clearly says in order to have a well regulated, necessary to our security, militia, citizens must be able to own and bear arms that they can have access to quickly during those early colonial days, when a militia armed with just muskets could actually be a viable force to be contended with by any foreign or domestic forces.  If you were not part of a well regulated militia, you had no Second Amendment rights, but you still had the right to keep and bear arms unless otherwise prohibited by some other state or local law.  The Second Amendment only applies to those who were part of a well regulated militia, as it clearly states. 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 29, 15, 07:12:25:PM
By Scott's and Caserio's definition any street gang could call itself a militia be be able to keep and bear arms!

Read the Second Amendment!

Who is guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms?  The People!

Who is regulated?  The Militia!

Who regulates the Militia?  The People via their right to keep and bear arms!

Why are you so illiterate as to be unable to understand that?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 29, 15, 07:59:07:PM
Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists/Wussies love to contort the wording of the 2nd Amendment to suit their wishes rather than the exact literal expression of it as stated
    by our Founding Fathers!!!

That's what those girlie-men do when they are frustrated by the Constitution!!!  It's like male PMS for them!!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 30, 15, 12:44:09:PM
wmdn_bs: Actually no, you are not correct. Actually, no. You're incorrect. I didn't forget to mention that guns kill people. Guns do not kill anyone. They never have and never will. In fact, from the day the first firearm was invented until this very day, a gun has not killed anyone.

Really? Then how do you account for the more than thirty thousand lives claimed by gun-related violence in the United States each year, wmdn_bs? Are you making the absurd suggestion that their deaths weren't caused by a gunshot wound? Are you suggesting that they actually died from some other cause? If guns really can't kill anything or anyone, then why are guns legally defined as deadly weapons or, more precisely, defined as deadly weapons per se?

Many people have been killed by other persons or themselves while using the tool a weapon--called a gun or firearm--that spits out a projectile.

Every year in the United States guns take the lives of roughly 30,000 people. When a coroner, medical examiner or other authorised person fills out death certificates for those hapless decedents, the cause of death is recorded as a gunshot wound. Unlike you, wmdn_bs, the person(s) filling out those death certificates realise that guns actually do kill people.   


but that is no fault of the firearm itself now is it?

No it's not. That's exactly what a gun is designed to do--propel a projectile with such force as to cause injury or death. It would be illogical for me to fault a weapon for operating exactly as it was designed and manufactured to do. Now wouldn't it, wmdn_bs?

And, furthermore, you'll search in vain to provide evidence of my blaming firearms for the epidemic gun violence in this country.   

The NRA is correct.

No, wmdn_bs. The NRA's bumper sticker slogan is incorrect because it's illogical: Guns do, in fact, kill. And only fools like you, and other dumbed-down gun nuts, will continue denying the fact that they do.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: caserio1 on 12 30, 15, 12:49:38:PM
guns have only one purpose......to kill

no other purpose.......none


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 30, 15, 01:13:17:PM
D2D: 1965hawks, link to one incident where a gun killed anyone without a person pulling the trigger!

1965hawks,

Provide a hyperlink to one incident that provides evidence of someone killed by a gun without a person pulling the trigger. You cannot because it never happened[.]

Never say never, D2D!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6d1_1199904992
What we need is criminal control not gun control[.]

No, D2D, what you need is take a seat and shut the fuck up, you chowder-brained ass clown.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Byteryder on 12 30, 15, 01:21:53:PM
Clearly Hawks is out of argument


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 30, 15, 01:24:38:PM
jim: Guns are like naked men that are fully tied up. They can't do a damned thing on their own and only shoots off when someone gently strokes or tickles that dangling protrusion hanging down.

jivin' jim,

True or False: Guns kill people.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 30, 15, 01:32:12:PM
byteryder7: Clearly Hawks is out of argument[sic]

You're confused again, byte. What's clear here is how easily 1965hawks refuted D2D's claim that no gun has ever killed someone without a person pulling the trigger. What's also clear here is your futile attempt to defend D2D's getting her ass handed to her again. Here's what you need to do, byteryder7: You need to do what D2D need's to do--take a seat and shut the fuck up!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 30, 15, 01:41:54:PM
Hayes: Liberals would try to have us believe that all gun owners are killers but that all liberals are not idiot welfare trash liberal logic at work [sic]

There's obviously nothing logical in right-wingnut gibberish Hayes posted above. Is there? And, needless to say, it doesn't support the claim made in the topic of this thread--the idiotic claim that no one has ever been killed by a gun. Does it?   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 30, 15, 06:10:22:PM
 
D2D: 1965hawks, link to one incident where a gun killed anyone without a person pulling the trigger!

1965hawks,

Provide a hyperlink to one incident that provides evidence of someone killed by a gun without a person pulling the trigger. You cannot because it never happened[.]

Never say never, D2D!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6d1_1199904992
What we need is criminal control not gun control[.]

No, D2D, what you need is take a seat and shut the fuck up, you chowder-brained ass clown.

Myth: Prison isn't the answer to crime control
Fact: From 1960-1980, per capita imprisonment for violent crimes fell from 738 to 227. In the same period, violent crime rates nationwide tripled.
Fact: Why does crime rise when criminals are released from prison early? Because they are likely to commit more crimes. 67.5% were re-arrested for
    new felonies or serious misdemeanors within three years. Extrapolating, those released felons killed another 2,282 people.(187)
Fact: 45% of state prisoners were, at the time they committed their offense, under conditional supervision in the community – either on probation
    or on parole.(188) Keeping violent convicts in prison would reduce violent crimes.
Fact: Homicide convicts serve a little more than ½ of their original sentences.(189) Given that men tend to be less prone to violent behavior as they
    age (190), holding them for their full sentences would probably reduce violence significantly.
Fact: Los Angeles County saw repeat offender and re-arrest rates soar after authorities closed jails and released prisoners early. In less than three
    years, early release of prisoners in LA resulted in:191
• 15,775 rearrested convicts
• 1,443 assault charges (192)
• 518 robbery charges (42)
• 215 sex offense charges (42)
• 16 murder charges (42)

(42) Weapons sell for just £50 as suspects and victims grow ever younger, The Times, August 24, 2007
(187) Reentry Trends in the U.S., Recidivism, Department of Justice, 1999
(188) US Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1991
(189) Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November , 2001
(190) Homicide rates peak in the 18-24 year old group, Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database
(191) Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll, Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2006
(192) Keep in mind these are just charges. Each arrested convict may have committed multiple crimes.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 30, 15, 06:13:40:PM
Libs/Dems/Fags/Feftists/Girlie-men blubber and blabber a non-stop mantra about how "Guns Kill People".

Fill in the Blank:  _________ Kill People

There are hundreds of things you can fill in that Blank with and be as totally correct as using the word "Guns".

Yet, Libs/Dems/Fags/Leftists/Girlie-men ONLY fill in that Blank with "GUNS"!!!!!    WHY? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

It's because those numbskulls  all subscribe to the Worldwide Socialist Agenda whereby the total CONTROL of Citizens REQUIRES that GUNS be BANNED and
  CONFISCATED by the GOVERNMENT so there can be NO RESISTANCE to the TYRANNICAL LEADERSHIP!!!! Without GUNS, EVERYONE WILL OBEY!!!!!!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: WWV10MHZ on 12 30, 15, 11:03:47:PM
Fill in the Blank.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 31, 15, 11:34:55:AM
Fill in the Blank:  _________ Kill People

WWV10MHZ: There are hundreds of things you can fill write in that lank.

I know, WWV10MHZ.

Fill in the lank.

OK.

Guns Kill People.

Now take a seat and shut the fuck up!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 12 31, 15, 12:19:35:PM
wmdn_bs: But the right to keep and bear arms is explicitly worded in the Second Amendment.

But that's irrelevant here, wmdn_bs. The wording of the Second Amendment isn't the issue here. At issue here is whether or not guns kill people. Apparently, you've succeeded in fooling some of the discussants to go off on your wild goose chase. But I refuse to be distracted by your red herring. I remain focused on the original issue--the NRA's illogical clam that guns don't kill people.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 12 31, 15, 01:01:22:PM
I don't care that you mistakenly think guns kill people. It doesn't trump my right to keep and bear arms as protected by the second amendment. Do you claim automobiles kill people? How about hammers? Baseball bats? Crowbars?  A reasonable person, or a person with a modicum of intelligence would realize and acknowledge that none of those items or any of the myriad of other tools used to prematurely end a life is capable of killing on its own.

Sadly, you don't seem to be one of those people.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 12 31, 15, 02:46:44:PM
Myth: Prison isn't the answer to crime control
Fact: From 1960-1980, per capita imprisonment for violent crimes fell from 738 to 227. In the same period, violent crime rates nationwide tripled.
Fact: Why does crime rise when criminals are released from prison early? Because they are likely to commit more crimes. 67.5% were re-arrested for
    new felonies or serious misdemeanors within three years. Extrapolating, those released felons killed another 2,282 people.(187)
Fact: 45% of state prisoners were, at the time they committed their offense, under conditional supervision in the community – either on probation
    or on parole.(188) Keeping violent convicts in prison would reduce violent crimes.
Fact: Homicide convicts serve a little more than ½ of their original sentences.(189) Given that men tend to be less prone to violent behavior as they
    age (190), holding them for their full sentences would probably reduce violence significantly.
Fact: Los Angeles County saw repeat offender and re-arrest rates soar after authorities closed jails and released prisoners early. In less than three
    years, early release of prisoners in LA resulted in:191
• 15,775 rearrested convicts
• 1,443 assault charges (192)
• 518 robbery charges (42)
• 215 sex offense charges (42)
• 16 murder charges (42)

(42) Weapons sell for just £50 as suspects and victims grow ever younger, The Times, August 24, 2007
(187) Reentry Trends in the U.S., Recidivism, Department of Justice, 1999
(188) US Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1991
(189) Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November , 2001
(190) Homicide rates peak in the 18-24 year old group, Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database
(191) Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll, Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2006
(192) Keep in mind these are just charges. Each arrested convict may have committed multiple crimes.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 02, 16, 03:03:26:PM
wmdn_bs: I don't care that you mistakenly think guns kill people.

If guns don't kill people, then why is a gunshot wound recorded as a cause of death on a decedent's death certificate, wmdn_bs?

It doesn't trump my right to keep and bear arms as protected by the second amendment Second Amendment.

The Second Amendment is irrelevant in this debate, wmdn_bs. Your blabbering about the Second Amendment is a red herring. There's absolutely nothing in the Second Amendment that even remotely refutes the argument that guns kill.

Do you claim automobiles kill people?

Yes I do; and don't tell me you've never heard of a pedestrian being struck and killed by an automobile, wndn_bs.

How about hammers? aseball bats? [c]rowbars?

What about them, wmdn_bs? Are you trying to make the ridiculous claim that they're incapable of causing death?

A reasonable person, or a person with a modicum of intelligence would realize and acknowledge that none of those items or any of the myriad of other tools used to prematurely end a life is capable of killing on its own.

You're attacking a straw man, wmdn_bs. No rational person with a modicum of intellect and intelligence has ever made the absurd claim that an inanimate instrument magically springs to life and kills of its own volition. That's the false premiss upon which your absurd argument is based. That's the argumentum ad absurdum you and your fellow gun nuts in this forum always like to trot out in opposition to gun control.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 02, 16, 03:13:57:PM
To: D2D

in re: Reply #128

Your logical fallacy: Red Herring.

What you posted is probably factual, however, it has no relevance at all to the issue at hand: whether or not guns kill. Nothing in your long-winded post refuted that claim. Truth is, reply #128 doesn't even mention the original issue. Does it, D2D?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 02, 16, 03:15:01:PM
Myth: Prison isn't the answer to crime control
Fact: From 1960-1980, per capita imprisonment for violent crimes fell from 738 to 227. In the same period, violent crime rates nationwide tripled.
Fact: Why does crime rise when criminals are released from prison early? Because they are likely to commit more crimes. 67.5% were re-arrested for
    new felonies or serious misdemeanors within three years. Extrapolating, those released felons killed another 2,282 people.(187)
Fact: 45% of state prisoners were, at the time they committed their offense, under conditional supervision in the community – either on probation
    or on parole.(188) Keeping violent convicts in prison would reduce violent crimes.
Fact: Homicide convicts serve a little more than ½ of their original sentences.(189) Given that men tend to be less prone to violent behavior as they
    age (190), holding them for their full sentences would probably reduce violence significantly.
Fact: Los Angeles County saw repeat offender and re-arrest rates soar after authorities closed jails and released prisoners early. In less than three
    years, early release of prisoners in LA resulted in:191
• 15,775 rearrested convicts
• 1,443 assault charges (192)
• 518 robbery charges (42)
• 215 sex offense charges (42)
• 16 murder charges (42)

(42) Weapons sell for just £50 as suspects and victims grow ever younger, The Times, August 24, 2007
(187) Reentry Trends in the U.S., Recidivism, Department of Justice, 1999
(188) US Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1991
(189) Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November , 2001
(190) Homicide rates peak in the 18-24 year old group, Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database
(191) Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll, Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2006
(192) Keep in mind these are just charges. Each arrested convict may have committed multiple crimes.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 02, 16, 03:41:07:PM
D2D: Myth: Prison isn't the answer to crime control
Fact: From 1960-1980, per capita imprisonment for violent crimes fell from 738 to 227. In the same period, violent crime rates nationwide tripled.


D2D, explain what that has to do with the topic at hand. Explain why you believe what you've posted is relevant to the original issue--whether or not guns kill.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 02, 16, 03:42:34:PM
If you want to prevent gun crime keep the criminals who commit such crimes in prison longer!

It is obvious even to the most obtuse person!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 02, 16, 04:28:14:PM
D2D: If you want to prevent gun crime keep the criminals who commit such crimes in prison longer[.]

D2D, the US has the largest prison population the world. Here's how the world's other advanced nations have dealt with the problem of gun violence. It's long past the time for the US to do the same.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/14/america-mass-murder-australia-gun-control-saves-lives

It is obvious even to the most obtuse person[.]

Evidently, the ineffectiveness of your proposed solution to gun violence in the US isn't obvious to you, D2D.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 02, 16, 04:31:35:PM
Myth: Prison isn't the answer to crime control
Fact: From 1960-1980, per capita imprisonment for violent crimes fell from 738 to 227. In the same period, violent crime rates nationwide tripled.
Fact: Why does crime rise when criminals are released from prison early? Because they are likely to commit more crimes. 67.5% were re-arrested for
    new felonies or serious misdemeanors within three years. Extrapolating, those released felons killed another 2,282 people.(187)
Fact: 45% of state prisoners were, at the time they committed their offense, under conditional supervision in the community – either on probation
    or on parole.(188) Keeping violent convicts in prison would reduce violent crimes.
Fact: Homicide convicts serve a little more than ½ of their original sentences.(189) Given that men tend to be less prone to violent behavior as they
    age (190), holding them for their full sentences would probably reduce violence significantly.
Fact: Los Angeles County saw repeat offender and re-arrest rates soar after authorities closed jails and released prisoners early. In less than three
    years, early release of prisoners in LA resulted in:191
• 15,775 rearrested convicts
• 1,443 assault charges (192)
• 518 robbery charges (42)
• 215 sex offense charges (42)
• 16 murder charges (42)

(42) Weapons sell for just £50 as suspects and victims grow ever younger, The Times, August 24, 2007
(187) Reentry Trends in the U.S., Recidivism, Department of Justice, 1999
(188) US Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1991
(189) Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November , 2001
(190) Homicide rates peak in the 18-24 year old group, Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database
(191) Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll, Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2006
(192) Keep in mind these are just charges. Each arrested convict may have committed multiple crim


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 02, 16, 04:32:47:PM
1965hawks, I don't want criminals living on my street!

I want them in prison where they belong!

Why punish the law abiding for the actions of criminals?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 04, 16, 01:44:58:PM
1965hawks, I don't want criminals living on my street! I want them in prison where they belong! Why do you punish the law abiding for the actions of criminals?

___D2D, "No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun," reply #226.

1965hawks,

I don't want criminals living on my street. I want them in prison where they belong. Why punish the law-abiding for the actions of criminals?

___D2D, "No one Was Ever Killed By A Gun," reply #226.

D2D, your irrelevant babbling about your not wanting criminals living on your street, your wanting them thrown into prison where they belong, and your asinine contention that laws "punish" the law-abiding has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The original issue here is whether or not gun has ever killed someone. Your off-topic rigmarole is nothing more than an irrelevant distraction away from the main issue--you know, a Red Herring.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 01 04, 16, 02:18:40:PM
According to crime statistics from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), knives are consistently used to kill people far more often than rifles are used (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls). And the numbers aren’t even close: five times as many murders were committed with knives than were committed with rifles last year.

The FBI statistics show that knives have been used as a murder weapon far more often than rifles — even those evil “assault weapons” we hear so much about — for quite a while. In 2013, knives or other cutting instruments were used to kill 1,490 victims. In contrast, rifles were the cause of death of 285 murder victims. Shotguns were used in 308 murders. In 2009, the ratio was very similar: knives were used in five times as many murders as rifles.

The number of rifle murders is 27 percent lower today — ten years after the expiration of the “assault weapon” ban — than it was in 2003, the last year “assault weapons” were banned by the federal government.


Maybe the FBI is lying and part of the vast NRA right wing conspiracy?   ROFL.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 04, 16, 02:46:48:PM
sweetwater5s9: According to crime statistics from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), knives are consistently used to kill people far more often than rifles are used (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls). And the numbers aren’t even close: five times as many murders were committed with knives than were committed with rifles last year.

sweetwater5s9,

The issue here is whether or not guns kill people.  Remember?


True or False: Guns kill people.

True or False?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 04, 16, 05:18:24:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 04, 16, 07:04:38:PM
To: D2D

in re: Reply #230

Evidently you've adopted sweetwater5s9's penchant for posting long-winded claptrap, however, nothing you posted in reply #230 disproved the claim that guns kill people. All you're doing here now is blowing smoke out your ass. That tactic has never worked for you before, so where did you get the inane notion that it would work for you now?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 04, 16, 08:43:13:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Disproving your claim guns only take lives!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 06, 16, 03:20:53:PM
D2D: Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually[,]

Not only is that claim unsupported by factual evidence, it does not support the claim that "no one was ever killed with a gun." Does it, D2D?

[d]isproving your claim guns only take lives!


D2D, you're up to your old tricks again: changing the facts to suit your bogus (and debunked) argument. When did I make that claim, D2D?  When did I make the claim that only guns take lives? That is what your dumb and functionally illiterate ass is really trying to say. isn't that right,you lying little bitch?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 06, 16, 10:11:59:PM
Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 08, 16, 11:07:06:AM
D2D: Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding [sic] gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above[.]

No, D2D. Actually, that's not true. You're repeated assertion has no basis in fact. As I've already pointed out to you, in actuality, you're citing the exaggerated estimates made in Kleck's  roundly ridiculed and thoroughly debunked "study" that purportedly gave evidence of civilian DGU (defensive gun use).

http://www.armedwithreason.com/defensive-gun-use-gary-kleck-misfires-again/


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 08, 16, 11:52:00:AM
Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!
                                                                                                                                       


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 08, 16, 12:24:50:PM
D2D: Actually, it is fully supported by blah blah blah blah blah....

D2D, in actuality, the claptrap you've posted so far supports nothing.

Not surprisingly, you can't provide evidence to support preposterous claim that guns don't kill. Your attempt to do so is both futile and illogical. What's even more illogical is your continued and ludicrous use of Kleck's bogus study (on defensive gun use) as evidence to support your laughable argument that guns don't kill. So tell me, D2D, what logical reason is there for me to continue this debate with your foolish ass?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 08, 16, 12:27:25:PM
Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!

Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Disproving your claim guns only take lives!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 08, 16, 01:25:54:PM
D2D: Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!Disproving your claim guns only take lives!Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –   more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively   stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.

D2D, actually, Kleck and Gertz's seriously flawed study has been debunked. Remember?


 (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 08, 16, 01:29:03:PM
Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!

Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Disproving your claim guns only take lives!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 08, 16, 01:48:47:PM
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

D2D, there's nothing in the CDC study ordered by President Obama that even remotely supports Kleck and Gertz's bogus estimates. Their "studies" and "reseach" on defensive gun use have been shown to be defective. Remember?
1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns! Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding! Criminals will always be armed! If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!

And nothing in the repeated claptrap you posted above refutes my argument.

D2D, I've given you your chance to prove that guns don't kill. Not surprisingly, you've failed to that; and, truth is, you never will. So all you're doing now is arguing for the sake of arguing. It's way past time for your idiot ass to take a seat, shut the fuck up, and stop making a damn fool of yourself--like you always do in this forum.

"There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year."

http://propagandaprofessor.net/tag/dr-kleck/


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 08, 16, 01:49:33:PM
Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!

Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Disproving your claim guns only take lives!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 09, 16, 04:45:20:PM
Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!


Disproving your claim guns only take lives!Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!


An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –   more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively   stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.


(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc


Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrativehttp://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a

REFUTED and DEBUNKED !


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 09, 16, 08:34:18:PM
 
REFUTED and DEBUNKED !

Only in your imagination!

Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!

Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Disproving your claim guns only take lives!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 11, 16, 11:35:40:AM
D2D: Only in your imagination[.] Actually, it is fully supported by blah blah blah....

It's your debunked ass that's imagining things, DUMB2DOOFAS. Guns kill people and your continually citing Kleck and Gertz's discredited studies and research will never change that fact, and neither will your misquoting the CDC report. You lost this debate a long time ago, DUMBO2DUMBASS. It's way past time for your DIPSHIT2DUMMY ass to take a seat and shut the fuck up! 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 11, 16, 09:36:27:PM
Only in your imagination!

Actually, it is fully supported by factual evidence and testimony by law abiding gun owners about their use of firearms for self defense as stated above!

Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Disproving your claim guns only take lives!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 01 12, 16, 07:11:07:AM
Nobody has been killed by a gun. The topic's subject line is absolutely correct. People have been killed WITH a gun. There are many reasons for that, and lack of restrictions on gun ownership is not one of them. Far too many people actually. Many people have been killed WITH hammers, baseball bats, screwdrivers, scissors, rocks, automobiles, and many other tools, but there is no call from either political party to further restrict ownership of any of those. Why not?


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: Byteryder on 01 12, 16, 07:28:08:PM
(http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/richedit/smileys/YahooIM/77.gif)


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 14, 16, 02:56:42:PM
wmdn_BS: Nobody has been killed by a gun.

Your logical fallacy: Denying a valid conclusion--Despite evidence to the contrary, you cling obstinately to an illogical contention that denies the lethality of firearms, and continue to deny that firearms--legally defined as deadly weapons per se-- do, in fact, kill.


The topic's subject line is absolutely correct.

No, wmdn_BS. If truth be told, this thread's topic is rather idiotic, to say the least.

People have been killed with a gun.


When someone uses a firearm to shoot a person dead, what causes that person's death, wmdn_BS? What does a coroner (or a medical examiner) record on the decedent's death certificate as the cause of death? What does he or she attribute the decedent's death to--the shooter or the weapon, wmdn_BS? Yes. People are killed daily in the US by people using firearms as weapons; and, of course, those weapons cause those deaths.  Truth is, wmdn_BS, guns kill, the inane and illogical denials of you and your supporters notwithstanding.

 


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 14, 16, 03:05:08:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Disproving your claim guns only take lives!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc)

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by
criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about
300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15941-cdc-study-ordered-by-obama-contradicts-white-house-anti-gun-narrative)
http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a (http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#g24a)

1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

Criminals will always be armed!

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 14, 16, 03:28:17:PM
   
(http://www.aesopsretreat.com/forum/richedit/smileys/YahooIM/35.gif): 1965hawks would sacrifice a minimum of 392,500 lives annually to ban guns!

Evidently, DUMB2DOOFAS would rather continue posting a debunked claim in the hope that reposting it over and over again will somehow make it true. 

Remember, gun bans/gun control only effects the law abiding!

All the rational discussants in this forum will always remember the catastrophic effect that mind-altering substances have on you when your DUMB ass posts your imbecilic claptrap on this message board, DELUSIONAL2DEMENTED. 

Criminals will always be armed!

And, unfortunately for you--and the rest of us in this forum, you will always remain a turd-brained imbecile, DUMBFUCK2DIPSHIT.

If liberals had their way the law abiding would be completely defenseless against the criminal element!

D2D, if I had my way, your bat-shit crazy ass would had been in a padded cell a long time ago, you lying little moron.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 14, 16, 03:42:18:PM
1965hawks, you have debunked nothing and my facts reign supreme and unsuccessfully challenged!


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 14, 16, 06:15:12:PM
DUMB2DOOFAS:1965hawks [sic], you have debunked nothing and my facts reign supreme and unsuccessfully challenged[.]

I see you're still under the influence of mind-altering substances, D2D. I won't waste my time trying to reason with someone who's obviously out of touch with reality.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: wmdn_bs on 01 14, 16, 06:34:54:PM
Hawks you waste your time attempting to convince me a gun, an inanimate object ever jumped up and killed someone of its own accord. Many people have used a gun to kill someone or more than persons, but that is a person doing the killing.

Now I will bid this topic adieu and leave it to you and D2D. Have fun.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 14, 16, 07:26:03:PM
wmdn_BS: Hawks[,] you waste your time attempting to convince me a gun, an inanimate object ever jumped up and killed someone of its own accord.

You're confused again, wmdn-BullSHitter. I ve never made that ridiculous claim; that's always the ridiculous argument (logical fallacy: an appeal to ridicule) presented by you and your fellow gun nuts in this forum

Many people have used a gun to kill someone or more than persons [Huh?], but that is a person doing the killing.

Yes. I agree, wmdn_bs. Many people, especially in the United States, have used a firearm to kill a lot of people, but the cause of death was the mortal wound inflicted by the weapon--an instrument used to cause  injury or death.

When a person is charged and tried for murder, that person is either found guilty of or acquitted of committing the crime of murder. The murder weapon didn't commit the crime, the person did, however, it was the murder weapon the killer used to commit the murder that actually killed the murder victim. Isn't that right, wmdn_bs?   

Now I will bid this topic adieu and leave it to you and D2D. Have fun.

You're not fooling anybody, wmdb_BS. Your leaving is actually a concession. I would like to think that you've finally come to your senses and realised the stupidity of trying to argue the absurd claim that guns don't kill. So go ahead and call it quits; save face. I certainly can't blame you for doing that. In fact, I commend you for your decision to stop making a fool of yourself.

 But needless to say, DUMB2DUMBFUCK will continue on posting inanities until she finally realises that I've grown tired of ridiculing her and stopped responding to her DUMB posts--something I had already decided to do after I responded to your post here.

So now we both can sit back and have fun watching DUMB2DUMBER babbling to herself.   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 01 15, 16, 03:29:26:PM
No tool has ever killed a human on its own and that is just the hard facts.   Operators of them have.  We do not have a 2nd Amendment problem but we do have a problem with a small number of humans as profiled by the government when it comes to violence.  The statistics are out there for all to see and understand.   Some like Obama refuse to deal with the social issues as it does not fit their agenda with the rest of society.   


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: 1965hawks on 01 15, 16, 04:52:22:PM
sweetnutcase5s9: No tool gun has ever killed a human man or beast on its own and that is just the hard facts.

Here's another hard fact, sweetnut: You NRA stooges are the only ones who make that ridiculous claim. I've never seen or heard an advocate of gun control--or any other rational person, for that matter!--make the ridiculous claim that guns magically spring to life and go off on shooting sprees on their own volition. But that's the fallacious argument--the appeal to ridicule--that you NRA sheeple always trot out to defend the NRA's illogical bumper sticker that would have us believe that guns don't kill.


Title: Re: No One Was Ever Killed By A Gun
Post by: D2D on 01 15, 16, 06:50:08:PM
Law abiding gun owners save a minimum of 392,500 lives annually!

Proving guns are not a public health problem but a contributor to good public health!

An average minimum of 1075 lives are saved by law abiding gun owners every day!

Fact: Every year, people in the United States use guns to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times –
    more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.(243) Of these instances, 15.7% of the people using firearms defensively
    stated that they "almost certainly" saved their lives by doing so.
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.

(243) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Kleck and Gertz, Fall 1995
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc