All Boards => Current Events => Topic started by: sweetwater5s9 on 09 18, 14, 03:41:31:PM



Title: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 09 18, 14, 03:41:31:PM
New York Times Headline: ‘Global Warming Saves Civilization’

If it weren't for coal and cars, how cold would we be?


(http://stevemaley.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/image001.png?w=640) (http://stevemaley.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/image001.png)


The top graph shows CO2 concentration in the atmosphere; the bottom one shows average temperature departure from the 1950 value. Two observations are readily apparent:

  • For the last 400,000 years at least, "normal" = "COLD!"
  • The warm periods are but brief interludes between ice ages. Wild temperature fluctuations were common before any possible impact of human civilizations. The anomaly is the stability of the moderate temperatures during the Holocene, the last 12,000 years (indicated by my red arrow), when warm weather fostered the development of human agriculture, cultures and civilization.
Consider what a global ice age would mean. Cincinnati, OH and points north would be under a glacier hundreds of feet thick (not necessarily a bad thing, in the mind of some readers and SEC football fans). Agriculture would be impossible in North America. The planet could sustain a tiny fraction of its current population.

Even with a cooling of a couple of degrees Celsius, crop yields and growing seasons would shift dramatically for the worse. It would be increasingly difficult to feed the planet.

Given the choice between Global Warming and Global Cooling, give me Warming any day.

Here’s an interesting question for the Climate Change community: What would today’s global temperature be absent the man-made CO2 input since the Industrial Revolution?


Cross-posted at stevemaley.com (http://stevemaley.com/2013/03/09/alternate-new-york-times-headline-global-warming-saves-humanity/).








(http://www.crystalinks.com/sol_iceage1209.jpg)

Earth Could Plunge into Sudden Ice Age


Live Science - December 2, 2009


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: littleeye on 09 18, 14, 03:49:41:PM
It is an interesting premise. Homo sapiens create an environment in which they will thrive. "I made fire"


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 09 18, 14, 03:54:14:PM
Yup, global cooling has been the norm and it sucks for human survival.


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: Dan on 09 18, 14, 04:55:05:PM
It is undeniable that life on Earth thrives during warmer periods and struggles during colder periods.
 
Why on Earth libs want to make the planet colder is beyond me.


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: wvit1001 on 09 18, 14, 05:05:49:PM
let's take a look at the actual report that sweaty's graph was taken from and not just rely on made up crap from one of sweaty's non scientific type goofballs shall we.  -




The recent completion of drilling at Vostok station in East Antarctica has allowed the extension of the ice record of atmospheric composition and climate to the past four glacial–interglacial cycles. The succession of changes through each climate cycle and termination was similar, and atmospheric and climate properties oscillated between stable bounds. Interglacial periods differed in temporal evolution and duration. Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane correlate well with Antarctic air-temperature throughout the record. Present-day atmospheric burdens of these two important greenhouse gases seem to have been unprecedented during the past 420,000 years.

Glacial periods in Antarctica are characterized by much colder temperatures,reduced precipitation and more vigorous large-scale atmospheric circulation. There is a close correlation between Antarctic temperature and atmospheric concentrations of CO
2 and CH4 (refs 5, 9). This discovery suggests that greenhouse gases are important as
amplifiers of the initial orbital forcing and may have significantly contributed to the glacial–interglacial changes
The Vostok ice cores were also used to infer an empirical estimate of the sensitivity of global climate to future anthropogenic increases of greenhousegas concentrations[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [/SIZE]
Our records reveal both similarities and differences between the successive interglacial periods. They suggest the lead of Antarctic air temperature, and of atmospheric greenhousegas concentrations, with respect to global ice volume and Greenland air-temperature changes during glacial terminations.
Finally, CO
2 and CH4 concentrations are strongly correlated with Antarctic temperatures; this is because, overall, our results support the idea that greenhouse gases have contributed significantly to the glacial–interglacial change. This correlation, together with the uniquely elevated concentrations of these gases today, is of relevance with respect to the continuing debate on the future of Earth’s climate.[/FONT][/SIZE] [/FONT]
Analyses of polar ice cores have added immensely to our knowledge of the mechanisms that govern global climate change.  Not least, the results of these analyses provide
tests for climate models intended to predict possible future responses to increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE]
http://www.daycreek.com/dc/images/1999.pdf (http://www.daycreek.com/dc/images/1999.pdf)
[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]






Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: wvit1001 on 09 18, 14, 05:09:37:PM
I read through that report sweaty and nowhere in it did I see anything resembling you and your stories twisting of the data.
 
Why do you suppose that is?
 
And who is it that published the story you are referencing in your posts?  All I can find is some blog with someone using the name of a George Clooney TV character from the old TV show ER.


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: littleeye on 09 18, 14, 05:16:10:PM
Neanderthal thrived in cold environs, but most likely died off when warming occurred. This must mean that liberal tree huggers still carry the Neanderthal gene.


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 09 18, 14, 05:17:34:PM
daycreek.com?   That has nothing to do with my post, wvit.    Try nature.com and the authors names are on the bottom of the graphs I posted.   

Daycreek.com is owned and operated by Alan and Jo Stankevitz.


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: wvit1001 on 09 18, 14, 05:22:58:PM
I see the names, that's where I got the pdf of the actual study. 
 
You didn't get it or any of the stuff you posted from the actual study though. 
 
The site I posted has a pdf of the actual study of the ice cores if you care to read it.
 
Where was it that you copied your wild ass story from sweaty, do you have a link?


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 09 18, 14, 05:23:04:PM
daycreek.com is wvit's science.  From their site:

(http://www.daycreek.com/dc/images/eco-badge-3.png) (http://purehost.com/green/green-certified.bml?domain=daycreek.com)


Daycreek.com is a web site devoted to our cordwood building adventure and living a more self-sufficient lifestyle.


Try nature.com, wvit and the authors names are on the bottom of the graphs I posted. 


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: wvit1001 on 09 18, 14, 05:24:09:PM
yeah, they have a pdf of the actual study sweaty, you should read it for yourself.
 
where did you get the stupid crap you posted?  are you ashamed to supply a link?


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: wvit1001 on 09 18, 14, 05:30:44:PM
who is this Steve Maley guy sweaty and what are his claims to fame other than writting bullshit Red State blog posts?


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: bluespower on 09 20, 14, 07:07:46:AM
sweet...the graphs you post are good..except they end at 1950.


from 1950 - 2014, co2 has spiked from 285 to 400...
way above prior historical levels...al gore's famous (and true) hockey stick graph.

since 1950, temperature has also bumped up to and beyond the climatic optimum peak of 8000 years ago.

the argument of global warming/climate change is that co2 (over at least the next 100 years) will drag temperature well above prior (natural) 100000 year glacial cycles...a co2 temperature blow off that will disrupt
and perhaps end civilization.

news at 11. 


Title: Re: Global Warming Saves Civilization
Post by: sweetwater5s9 on 09 20, 14, 08:00:07:AM
Here’s an interesting question for the Climate Change community: What would today’s global temperature be absent the man-made CO2 input since the Industrial Revolution?